JJ
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Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 19, 2014 23:48:16 GMT -8
Is that a big pile of fire brick??? Well, even normal ones, that would be fantastic for a mass! You know, a friend on facebook - an old hippie who used to live in communes...etc raked me over the coals this evening about my using fire bricks for the heat riser rather than stove pipe. My first rmh, I used the stove pipe and insulated with vermiculite and clay - worked alright. But then as I built them more, I went to the fire brick heat riser and I seem to get better rocket as well as more heat retention. She said I am making more work for myself using fire brick...etc. Thoughts? Is stove pipe better?
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 19, 2014 21:21:26 GMT -8
Here's what my soil test looked like - it was the same throughout 12 samples:
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 19, 2014 21:19:51 GMT -8
Sooooo... I'm in Jackson, where are you, and where's this trove? Is there enough to share with another Michigander, or do you have plans for the whole stack? I'm 8 miles east of Ithaca. The trove will be there all week. It's 2 miles east of Ithaca on Washington road. Go up to 127 and head north. Get off on hwy 57 and take baldwin to the north to Washington. If you want - give me a call or text and I'll come help you load up. The clay is AWESOME - near perfectly ready without bringing anything into it. 605-592-0283 My name is Jamie
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 19, 2014 14:49:17 GMT -8
Is that a big pile of fire brick??? Well, even normal ones, that would be fantastic for a mass! Oh you betcha!@! Thus far - I have half that pile relocated to my house lol and I drive a small Kia Sportage lol. Tomorrow morning I'm gonna get up bright and early and go get more. One can never have enough fire brick!
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 19, 2014 14:48:00 GMT -8
Is that a big pile of fire brick??? Heck ya!! The house that they tore down had 4 chimneys!!! When I saw it I about fell out of my car!! I'm telling you! I found heaven!!! lol
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 18, 2014 18:55:43 GMT -8
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 18, 2014 15:29:22 GMT -8
Alright - I had an electrical issue that needed fixing but I'm back here. I got this half done rocket mass sitting here. I went out today and found a candy store - check it out: So I got home - unloaded some brick and 6 buckets of that awesome clay: Now for cob test runs yay lol It feels so good to have my hands back in the clay. There's just something about it.....
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 18, 2014 15:25:27 GMT -8
Alright. Awesome. That's an excellent source as well. Thanks Pin
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 18:42:53 GMT -8
I didn't know you needed water to make fire. ~feeling confused (that was a joke.) =-D LOL! To make fire no, to make hot water it's pretty essential. Or perhaps you're suggesting I should just get at it and build something. Truth be told I do have a 6in (15.24cm) square L-tube I use to boil sap down to maple syrup. Problem is it's made of 1/4in (.64cm) steel, so at some point based on what I've read here I'm looking at a rebuild. That's why I'm looking for input on the materials I'm thinking of using right now In hopes that this will last a substantial amount of time. Thanks and God Bless Jacob I am by far not the best person based on experience to ask about the rebuild. I have mastered the typical rocket mass heater and have experimented with it a lot - just not with water yet. Just for the sake of gaining commonality with you - we live in Michigan and have numerous maple trees on our property and use rocket tech to produce our syrup as well We use typical fire brick rocket stoves for that. I was reading that you want to retain heat for 15 gallons of water. I had once today had an idea - based on Donkey's idea of putting the water heater tank inside the bell - and then thought to myself, why couldn't the water heater tank go "inside" of another tank "inside" of the bell as long as the space between the water heater tank and the other tank that were both inside of the bell was insulated? You'd definitely want some type of heat retention between the water tank and the hot air in the bell - especially if you're going to be heating 15 gallons of water, no? I mean - you don't want just "warm" water so the insulation would have to be thinner...but at least it would be a continuous retention of heat inside that bell so that the water was still hotter even after the stove went out? Just a thought. I only just learned about the russian "bell" technology today and am still researching so what do I know anyway lol. PS: YES! Get on it! The best thing you can do is get to tinkerin so your trial and error process gets over faster! (This coming from a bona fide bohemian-blood gypsy, 3rd generation American
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 14:21:53 GMT -8
Alright, alright, ALRIGHT! There! Ya got me to sign up for an account so I can chip in and get some feedback too, I hope you're all happy! First question up, how do I make sketchup files available for your viewing pleasure? My primary objective is a small system to preheat 15gal (56.78L) batches of water going into the hot water heater. The setup as I see it in my head will be a 15gal drum plumbed into the house line submerged in a 55gal (208.2L) insulated drum of water that will be pumped into the bottom of a 20gal (75.71L) drum (on its side, and for those interested its surface area is @11.8ft 2 (1.2m 2)) within an insulative bell. This drum is to be vented so there is no chance of the boom squish (shouldn't that be boom scald or boom shrapnel, why the squish?) mentioned previously in this thread. And finally it will return via gravity flow out the much larger opening on top to the 55gal drum. And for those skipping ahead to the last page of this thread (as of this posting) allow me to reemphasize that if you're going to play with fire that's fine. However, if you're going to play with fire AND water please look up mythbusters water heater on youtube and then take the time to really understand what you're dealing with. (How was that Donkey? ) So, I guess the first thing I could use input on is planned use of materials. Starting with the core (4in square (10.16cm) system btw) and first section of riser I plan to use Rutland's castable refractory cement and surround it in 4in of perilite. For the remaining sections of riser my plan is to make a 4:1 mix of perilite and refractory cement. Finally, for the bell, even though I would love to just make the top bottom and sides as single pieces I've read here that big pieces typically end up being big puzzle pieces. So, my thought is to make 4in x 4in x 8in (10.16cm x 10.16cm x 20.32cm) bricks out of a 4:1 mix of perilite and masonry mortar. Well, without being able to post a visual that's it for now. Thanks everyone, take care, and God Bless! Jacob I didn't know you needed water to make fire. ~feeling confused (that was a joke.) =-D
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 14:16:01 GMT -8
Oh my gosh??? Those barrels are the bells? So...the bells don't actually "have" to be made of brick ya?
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 13:06:21 GMT -8
Well, I suppose I'll try that shallow bell design in my thermal battery then. I'm gonna have to do a lot more research. I'll have to put up pics on my other thread - my mid michigan one - and maybe if you guys have time you can give me some pointers. That animation really allowed me to conceptualize it better. My first thought: how come I didn't think of that? lol
Thanks so much for the info karl.
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JJ
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Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 9:40:04 GMT -8
Very Very Very much appreciated for the links guys.
So in your honest opinion - is this more efficient than a typical rocket mass heater with a 40 foot thermal battery? Not entirely sure that my joists - even though supported underneath with thick barn beams - will hold all those tons....
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 9:11:43 GMT -8
A stove bell is simply a space where heat is extracted, enough tall and wide to allow separation of hot and cold gas by gravity. Ok. So in my thermal battery for the typical rocket mass heater...instead of using stove pipe like I typically would with elbows..etc - I would build something like this: www.sundogbuilders.net/rocket/AdobeDragon/DSCF3077.jpeg?? I'm very interested in this...but do I still use a manifold coming out of the combustion unit for this? I see the purpose of the bell is to trap the heat and let go of the cold. Does this still allow for heat retention in the thermal battery made of cob? I'm sure I sound like a dimwit atm - but once I got the concept down it'll sink in...just takes a min since I'm so thick skulled bohemian lol.
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Oct 5, 2014 9:05:11 GMT -8
I'm trying to understand that "bell" function. How hot does this thing get internally?
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