JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 18:48:00 GMT -8
In your travels, don't overlook Natural Building. I've been a natural builder for about a decade now, when I look at your images of disaster zone, I see piles of building materials ready for re-use. See, This is exactly what I'm talking about - with regard to shelters. They were using sheets...nailed to trees for shelter...or coleman tents for full families. If we could somehow construct the natural homes...that, if moved out of could be used to just go back into nature without destroying anything....why not? I had purchased Ianto's book on hand-sculpted homes a while back and it's in our library. I had also purchased the following books: Building with Earth by Gernot Minke Earthships by Reynolds (although it wasn't until today while looking through those books that I made the connection to the website I saw for the first time today) You aren't kidding Donkey...about the debris...I was just looking through some of the other pictures... Here's the salvaged trailer that we first started out with. It was an old U Haul trailer that they were going to pitch..so we fixed it a fast so we could use it to carry more donated items down south for our project (we had gotten over 13 semi trucks full of donated goods both used and new from individuals and companies)...and still didn't have room... Here's where a home stood - and the only thing "in tact" that was left was the concrete slab... A lot of that could be re-used to build natural homes, I would think. A pile of what was once a roof for a shed: This was a home in a residential neighborhood in Chattanooga, TN - look at all that wood...and brick that could be used... This was a bank...in Ringold, TN: A gas station in Ringold, TN: It would be very interesting...if another disaster strikes, Donkey - to get your input on putting together emergency housing for some of these folks...it wouldn't have to be permanent like earthships...but just something temporary (that we could build pocket rockets or rocket stoves in for heating/cooking) that they could use until such time that they could get back on their feet. A lot of those mountain people didn't have insurance. They are living on as little as 20.00 a month...some of them... We traveled all over Tennessee and Alabama helping to clean up the disaster area, rebuild and provide donations. We had found that during that particular instance...most people needed shelter first...because after the first spree of tornadoes..another spree came and just "undid" all of our immediate work.
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JJ
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Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 16:19:14 GMT -8
Concrete would likely heat-shock badly. My stove has heat-shocked a little up at the top. Nothing leaks out and it isn't really a problem, but it isn't the MOST attractive feature. It's really best to have the thermal mass in the space that you live in. Not practical to put all that weight up on the first floor of your pops place, a lot of shoring up would be needed to hold it. A foot or more of floodwater in the basement... Wow. whatever you make will need to be up on some kind of foundation above flood level. Probably NOT the most pleasant to go downstairs and feed the fire in the flood. As to internal drawings... Lets see what I can do.. Let me think about it. What is the material that you used for your walls and the outside of that stove? Is that loam with silica...or...?
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 15:04:06 GMT -8
So, I've spoken to my team.
I've showed them some various topics from the other forum at permies as well as this website and richsoil, the MIT rocket stove project website, aprovecho, the haitian rocket stove website, and cob cottage website.
I've also shown them the "earthships" website and their youtube channel.
It would take us at least a year...to develop and carry out a project plan to add this as an addition onto our platform and they are all willing to do it. So I've told them that the first thing they all need to do - is sit down and do some basic "free writing" about what it is we really want to accomplish using this type of technology.
It looks like we will have a pretty good thing going on here - and as long as our stakeholders agree to the addition and what not - we'll be able to put it into motion. Our stakeholder list is comprised of local "non-corporate" businesses who are all of "like mind" when it comes to these disasters. They range from Michigan to South Dakota and everywhere in between.
What I'd really like to see...is ideas and suggestions about how disaster victims can be helped the most. The Rocket Stove for cooking being one of the mains.
It's hard enough to be a disaster victim...and harder when yet another disaster is created while trying to help these people. I am thankful for ANY input...and ANY ideas...suggestions...
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 11:12:31 GMT -8
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 10:31:08 GMT -8
My grandpa driving our son Jesse's "mini" quad and Jesse driving the "monster" six wheeler. You can kinda see the elementary school gymnasium floor "siding" on the side of the garage in that pic: A recycled "pallet" deck that Dave (my husband), Grandpa and Jesse were building summer before last before grandpa passed. Jesse wheelin his dump trucks in his bag down the driveway to our gravel pit where him and his sister play "dumptrucks" construction. In this pic - you can see the salvaged things that grandpa had collected: The pens where the sheep are kept (about 10 years ago) where grandpa used old salvaged fence and other things: He wasn't so much concerned with "aesthetics" whereas I am a bit...so we'll be working the farm and getting it fixed up using salvaged items - to continue his legacy. We're even looking into "dying" the sides of the barn with natural pigments...not quite sure on that one yet. All in all - he put together a nice foundation here...and it will be very interesting to see what we can do with all of these materials...for the betterment of everyone.
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JJ
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Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 10:16:38 GMT -8
If you want to take this a further, check out Earthships. I love Earthships. After reading the website, I realized that they are doing what we've been doing. The two trailer houses that we added onto an existing home (my mother's home) were salvaged. They were abandoned and were going to be broken down and thrown in the land fill. My grandfather raised me. He passed away in May of 2012 God rest his soul. That left my mother and grandmother to work the land and tend the animals on the 10 acre farm in South Dakota. We moved back to South Dakota from Michigan in 2012 after grandpa passed away (he had a rare bile duct cancer) to help with the farm as they were facing foreclosure without grandpa's income. Grandpa was a tinkerer. There is so much stuff on this hobby farm that he salvaged from auctions...from local building deconstructions...etc. The outside of our trailer houses is shielded from the weather using the floor of a basketball court that had been used in the elementary school for years....and when they tore it down - they were giving the materials away for local residents to use. The sections were 8x10 - and EXTREMELY heavy. Grandpa (with our help) put the walls up around the trailer. We plan to cover the entire outside of the house with natural materials this coming summer. All of our lumber that we get...is from the factories in town. Pallets - 2x3's that they just throw away. There is a lot of metal that people throw away in this area as well - that we utilize. Televisions contain a lot of copper. We salvage televisions and use the copper for heating in some places. There is very minimal supplies structuralizing our home...that were "bought" from a store. We are using pop cans to construct various experimental wind turbine devices (tens of thousands). The place that we live in right now looks like a landfill minues the garbage. We have wood all over the place...tin and metal piled up...barns falling down...etc. We plan to change that. Grandpa had just gotten so old that he couldn't keep up. He had started to build a greenhouse using old salvaged windows...but the roof of the building it was connected to has started to fail and fall a bit. This summer will be very busy...we'll be working from sun up to sun down - and beyond, but we're anxious to get started...and determined. We tear down homes and buildings as well - for those folks that don't want them anymore. You can get a lot of wood from a barn that people want torn down. It's a bit of work, but we do it...and not for our own selfish needs. We do it because the world cannot keep raising trees in 2 years. We want to help preserve the trees that have been here...growing on the Earth for so long...and to help with everything else that humans are destroying due to our population size. I keep going back to a quote that I had seen once: "You must be the change you want to see in the world." ~Mahatma Gandhi There is no quote I've ever come across...that trumps it. Therefore, I try to be the change I want to see in the world. I don't have a lot of money...but I have a lot of other things that trump money...and I try to share it as much as I can without letting people discourage me - and people are good at that from time to time. I have drive - I might as well use it to help myself and everyone else as well. (Nash Equilibrium theory)
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 9:38:46 GMT -8
I checked out the websites listed by you folks here. Pretty amazing...I'm still reading. I did come across this: Pallets are something that can be readily found in disaster areas, of course, a lot of debris can be used as well and by putting cob in between the spaces...and with a team of people building - one could easily build the people a temporary home that wouldn't be environmentally damaging if built correctly. It would provide safety...and add a rocket stove for cooking...and they'd have all the essentials of life. They'd be able to cook with the donated food...warm it up...sleep in peace..etc.
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 8:21:50 GMT -8
I have the burn pot from an old coal furnace. Would this be too large to convert into a MRS heater for my shop? The dimensions are 66" tall by 38" wide. Any information would be helpful. My husband and I are still building our first. In Ianto's book, there's a paragraph with a suggestion about "shops," on page 59: Where would I choose not to build a Rocket Stove? Buildings that are irregularly occupied such as churches, meeting halls, etc need to be heated rapidly and don’t benefit from long-term stored heat. In large houses with many rooms in very cold zones where heat needs to reach rooms distant from the stove, it might make sense to heat selected rooms by forced hot air. In a work space such as a carpentry shop where one seldom sits down it might be better to have a stove which delivers a lot of radiant heat in place of storing heat, so that you can quickly adjust your comfort by moving closer or further from the stove. In outdoor rooms or living spaces that are not well sealed such as teepees, tents, etc the air heated by the storage would leave the building before you got a chance to enjoy it. Better maybe to put in a stove that delivers high temperature radiation such as a barrel stove or a Rumford fireplace. If you don't already have his book, you can purchase it or the ebook here: rocketstoves.comOn Larry's site: bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Still/Rocket%20Stove/Principles.htmlThe cross sectional area (perpendicular to the flow) of the combustion
chamber should be sized within the range of power level of the stove.
Experience has shown that roughly twenty-five square inches will suffice for
home use (four inches in diameter or five inches square). Commercial size is
larger and depends on usage.From what I understand the cross sectional area is important - so you might want to first see where the placement of your stove is - and see how it's going to radiate heat and to where. I can't find the link, but I watched a youtube video about a week ago where a guy had a pretty big shop - all one room - and that rocket heater he had was positioned so as to make the corner of his shop "round" and it radiated out into the entire shop and kept it warm for him. He was using a 55 gallon barrel. Not sure what the cross sectional dimensions on that particular one was though. Donkey could probably give you more specifics as I'm still learning. He's very good at this type of thing.
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 8:16:10 GMT -8
I have the burn pot from an old coal furnace. Would this be too large to convert into a MRS heater for my shop? The dimensions are 66" tall by 38" wide. Any information would be helpful. How big is your shop?
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 22, 2013 23:29:03 GMT -8
Jaime (?) I beleive that rocket stoves were developed years ago in response, not to a cataclysmic disaster, but to an ongoing health and environmental emergency. Approvecho.org was one of the early groups working with/improving upon earlier stove designs in the "third world". Other groups such as PracticalAction.org and Kickstart.org and Mayapedal.org are part of a wider net, so to speak; advocating for, inventing and implementing numerous appropriate and sustainable technologies encompassing food, shelter, energy and transportation. There is such a breadth of technologies, in so many areas (as alluded to at that other forum) that we can be involved with, both here in the US and abroad: and the time is here for us. Thanks to all that share their work, and, as my tagline reads in other places: "we CAN build a better world" Andor P.S. you might also enjoy builditsolar.com - clearinghouse lots of DIY renewable energy projects Yes, It's Jamie Oh my gosh - you've provided so much here I know what I'll be busy doing tomorrow lol. It's my birthday - and what better way to spend it. 32 years...has taught me that we can..indeed..build a better world. I just saw "cob cottage co" for the first time this evening via their website. I was in awe... It made me realize once again...how heavily indoctrinated we all are....and how simple and pleasurable life really can be....without all the "clutter." It's late and I'm a bit tired...but rest assured..come tomorrow I'll have some great comments about those websites. I know the ones that I had seen with Haiti...took my breath away. The power of the human spirit...is amazing. The will to survive... Call me sappy...but this is the stuff that really just makes life "worth it."
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JJ
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by JJ on Jan 22, 2013 20:18:02 GMT -8
I'm creating this topic to learn about why people learn about rocket stoves - what they do with them - and what kinds of things we "could" do with them insofar as helping disaster victims and other impoverished people out. When I first started reading about rocket stoves - some of the information that I'd come across was from Haiti. The things people were doing over there to survive blew me away. It melted my heart and made me realize that my husband and I could benefit from using that kind of technology out to help ourselves and everyone we help as well. We travel around the country helping disaster victims as well as home-steading on a 10 acre piece of land in South Dakota. Our most recent volunteer work was in 2011 when the Southern United States got nailed with over 300 tornadoes. Entire villages/towns and cities were destroyed. When we first arrived down South, we were directed by a fire marshall to a place called "Flat Rock" Alabama. It was on the top of a mountain. Although my husband grew up in the mountains, I'd never even "seen" a real mountain nonetheless ever "been" on one. It was quite the experience. What we saw on the top of that mountain was some of the most gruesome things I've ever seen. There were people huddling for cover under sheets that were nailed the trees...there were people (deceased) strewn across tree branches - and parentless children running around in the woods. The hardest part was watching these people get denial letters from FEMA and FEMA wanting to conduct a clean sweep of the area (so they could minimize the actual damages - something I investigated back then and exposed). I'm thinking that we could actually use some of the designs posted on these forums...some ideas..."anything" to help these disaster victims out in the future... Many people lost their entire home. For example - this was once a high class neighborhood street in Chattanooga, TN: And up on the mountain: Some of these people lost their entire home - poof - gone, along with every family member they had. To me - this is the reason for my learning about rocket stoves, rocket mass heaters - and everything else of the like. I want to use these things (pocket rockets, for example) to assist these people when it gets cold at night...or when they need something to cook on. I want to ensure that they can keep their children from being cold at night. I want to help make them temporary housing...when there is no other options except a donated tent for a 5 person family. This is, in effect, my life's work - volunteering right here in the US - to help people who are either impoverished or disaster victims. The government cannot afford (money or time) to help every person who needs it, however, the rest of the nation can and does. I'd like to see what kinds of other things like the rocket stove are out there - that would aid me in helping these kinds of people. Whatcha think? Got anything in mind?
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