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Post by satamax on Jan 10, 2017 2:49:51 GMT -8
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Post by coisinger on Jan 12, 2017 9:29:06 GMT -8
My question would be, did you insulate between your mass and the concrete walls?
It seems like much of the heat you plan to store in the mass will be warming your walls. I believe this is what Wolf is referring to in his question. I know this is a test bed of sorts, so maybe it's not an issue for this purpose but for a final unit, I would put at a minimum an air gap to avoid heat transfer. In spite of my comment, this is a very cool build. Looking forward to results.
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Post by briank on Jan 12, 2017 9:59:04 GMT -8
My question would be, did you insulate between your mass and the concrete walls? It seems like much of the heat you plan to store in the mass will be warming your walls. I believe this is what Wolf is referring to in his question. I know this is a test bed of sorts, so maybe it's not an issue for this purpose but for a final unit, I would put at a minimum an air gap to avoid heat transfer. In spite of my comment, this is a very cool build. Looking forward to results. On the other side of the longest concrete wall directly behind the bench is a finished room in the basement, and to the left is the chimney. Only the 2' on the right is an outside wall. I don't mind transferring some heat to that other room. In fact I considered building a second bench there but would have had to make two 6" holes in that concrete wall to let the smoke circulate through to the second bench. This is a test bed whose primary purpose is to heat the therapy pool and as a proof of concept. If it was a permanent installation I'd mortar the bricks and pavers of the bench. I've sealed off the two 6" pipes running to the bench for now and opened the bypass damper and plan the first fire this evening. Hopefully I'll have the bench completed and plumbed and sealed up tomorrow to try a fire using the bench too. I've sealed all the pipe entries and exits from the barrels with furnace cement, as well as where the flue enters the chimney. I'm thinking of doing that with all the bench brick and paver joints too instead of using Great Stuff spray foam. |
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Post by briank on Jan 12, 2017 20:44:40 GMT -8
I closed off the bench and fired it up for the first time tonight.
It smoked back a bit when it was cold but once it was at full burn and the barrel stove primary air was completely closed, it did not smoke at all. It burned approx 1 hour and 15 minutes and the highest temp reached on the barrel top was 790 degrees F. Not bad for a first trial. I know what needs sealed up with furnace cement before the next burn.
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Post by pinhead on Jan 13, 2017 6:21:57 GMT -8
You'll get MUCH less smoke-back at startup if you light the fire at the base of the port, then load the rest of the fuel on top of it.
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Post by peterberg on Jan 13, 2017 7:16:58 GMT -8
It works, that is very positive.
Just curious: how do you manage to separate the primary air from the secondary air? In the first movie the primary air is closed as mentioned but inside the firebox the secondary channels aren't separated from the rest of the innards as far as I can see.
And also: is that door really airtight? Most doors aren't, even an absolutely minimal gap is often adding up to be larger than the inlet itself.
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Post by matthewwalker on Jan 13, 2017 7:53:06 GMT -8
Jesus fucking christ Brian, get that paint off the barrel before you subject your family to any more burnt epoxy. Please.
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Post by briank on Jan 13, 2017 8:40:09 GMT -8
Jesus fucking christ Brian, get that paint off the barrel before you subject your family to any more burnt epoxy. Please. I have an open basement window 10' from the stove with a pretty powerful exhaust fan blowing out and two open windows on the other side of the basement to let fresh air in. In the one video we were just switching over from a regular fan in the window to the more powerful exhaust fan when in the video my mom said she could smell something. This is the fan we're using now: m.harborfreight.com/8-inch-portable-ventilator-97762.html?utm_referrer=direct%2Fnot%20providedI think the burning epoxy started overwhelming the ability of the regular fan (which you can hear in the background of the first videos) to exhaust the basement so we switched to the much more powerful exhaust fan. You can hear it in the first video I posted above, which was the last video shot, and there's no smoke in the room. My mom, who has a VERY sensitive nose, couldn't smell a thing once we used the exhaust fan. It did an amazing job of evacuating any smoke. And cooling down the heat from the stove on a 60 degree F winter day in January. |
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Post by briank on Jan 13, 2017 9:00:17 GMT -8
It works, that is very positive. Just curious: how do you manage to separate the primary air from the secondary air? In the first movie the primary air is closed as mentioned but inside the firebox the secondary channels aren't separated from the rest of the innards as far as I can see. And also: is that door really airtight? Most doors aren't, even an absolutely minimal gap is often adding up to be larger than the inlet itself. Thanks. I'll seal off the socondary air under the firebrick in front. Frankly I just hadn't thought of it. The barrel stove door is definitely not airtight. Would a stove gasket help? |
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Post by briank on Jan 13, 2017 9:12:08 GMT -8
I specifically wanted to create a design that uses no cob or mortar Brian, I 'liked' this project when I saw your first post. However, I have just read through your subsequent posts and have some reservations... Being a 'dry' installation the whole thing cannot be air tight and you're throwing bits together that haven't been tested individually let alone all together. The firebox, door, barrel and bench all have possible 'joints of failure'. In my experience unless you have stuck, clamped or screwed two different materials together with a refractory gasket in between you need something 'wet' (cob, clay slip or mortar) to ensure everything is sealed. A gap here and a leak there will have a big impact on performance and efficiency. My 2¢... You were right. I have a lot of sealing to do on the stove after the first fire identified the leaks. I have lots of furnace cement that I'll be applying liberally. The stove pipes did fairly well with the aluminized tape on the joints and I had already applied furnace cement where they enter the bench. Now I'll have to do the same where they exit the barrel as my aluminized tape did not survive at the barrel interface. |
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Post by keithturtle on Jan 13, 2017 22:19:03 GMT -8
"Good decisions come from experience. Unfortunately much experience comes from bad decisions." Looks like you cheated the reaper and made enough good decisions along the way to be successful. Thank you for sharing
Turtle
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Post by Vortex on Jan 14, 2017 2:39:25 GMT -8
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Post by briank on Jan 14, 2017 6:09:37 GMT -8
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Post by pianomark on Jan 14, 2017 11:41:18 GMT -8
Brian,
I will be very curious to see if your heat exchanger inside the bench causes any condensation problems. Seems like it could, especially if you're starting with cold water in the system. Once it's up to therapy pool temp (102-103 F?), and you're just recirculating, that (potential) problem will be lessened or eliminated. Hope it works!
Are the coils going in the bench and the finned tubes in the tub, or vice versa?
Mark
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Post by briank on Jan 14, 2017 13:19:56 GMT -8
Brian, I will be very curious to see if your heat exchanger inside the bench causes any condensation problems. Seems like it could, especially if you're starting with cold water in the system. Once it's up to therapy pool temp (102-103 F?), and you're just recirculating, that (potential) problem will be lessened or eliminated. Hope it works! Are the coils going in the bench and the finned tubes in the tub, or vice versa? Mark I connected the two coils together then connected the finned tubes. All of that copper will be in the bench, none in the pool. I'll watch for condensation as the exhaust will have a lot of water with the CO2. It's will start out at winter tap water temp. Hot tub temps are in the 105• range but I'm going to keep it around 86• for exercise. |
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