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Post by briank on Jan 7, 2017 17:53:10 GMT -8
My bench is almost done. Now I just need to plumb the copper tubing coils in the top of the bench. The 2'x2' pavers were 50lbs each, so with a double layer of 8 of them on top this bench will constitute ~3000lbs of mass.  |
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Post by pianomark on Jan 7, 2017 18:10:22 GMT -8
Hi Brian,
I love your main core design, and I love the exchange of ideas on this forum, and how they interact to inspire creative new ideas.
I've been working (off and on) on a similar idea, except I've been working with a 2 drawer steel filing cabinet, drawers removed and turned onto it's backside. That makes a nice horizontal steel container with an open top and front (the original bottom). I had a pretty successful outdoor mockup last summer (which included the ceramic fiber riser tubes that you sourced, thanks!). I got a little frustrated with my inability to get a good perlite/clay mixture to surround the split firebrick liner, so I started thinking about using ceramic fiber boards layered and shaped to surround and support the firebrick liner (all within the steel box). Lo and behold, you have done a very similar thing! I will follow your progress with great interest.
It appears that your core is mostly held together by gravity, it that right? I like that, makes it easy to experiment and modify as you go, also to replace parts and clean out.
I wonder about your top gap above the riser; eyeballing the photos, with barrel on and off, it looks to me like it may be too small for a batch box. Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, or maybe you're not done tweaking the details.....
Mark
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Post by briank on Jan 7, 2017 19:15:55 GMT -8
Hi Brian, I love your main core design, and I love the exchange of ideas on this forum, and how they interact to inspire creative new ideas. I've been working (off and on) on a similar idea, except I've been working with a 2 drawer steel filing cabinet, drawers removed and turned onto it's backside. That makes a nice horizontal steel container with an open top and front (the original bottom). I had a pretty successful outdoor mockup last summer (which included the ceramic fiber riser tubes that you sourced, thanks!). I got a little frustrated with my inability to get a good perlite/clay mixture to surround the split firebrick liner, so I started thinking about using ceramic fiber boards layered and shaped to surround and support the firebrick liner (all within the steel box). Lo and behold, you have done a very similar thing! I will follow your progress with great interest. It appears that your core is mostly held together by gravity, it that right? I like that, makes it easy to experiment and modify as you go, also to replace parts and clean out. I wonder about your top gap above the riser; eyeballing the photos, with barrel on and off, it looks to me like it may be too small for a batch box. Maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, or maybe you're not done tweaking the details..... Mark Hi Mark, Finally some feedback on these risers! Thanks! Yes, everything is just held together by gravity, except the angle iron I placed around the top of the firebricks around the firebox and bolted to the original barrel stove barrel rim for stability. Otherwise everything can be removed/replaced for experimenting and wear and tear. In one of the photos I had the second riser sitting on top of the first, but I cut it down prior to placing the barrel over the riser so that it leaves an 11-12" gap from the riser top to the barrel. That's what is currently recommended at batchrocket.eu/en/building#bellsizing : "The gap between the top of the riser and the top of the bell should measure at least 30 cm (1'). In the vast majority of cases this will be sufficient, though more is better as the more the gases are slowed down the better the separation of hot and cold gases." |
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morticcio
Full Member
"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
Posts: 371
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Post by morticcio on Jan 9, 2017 4:02:22 GMT -8
I specifically wanted to create a design that uses no cob or mortar Brian, I 'liked' this project when I saw your first post. However, I have just read through your subsequent posts and have some reservations... Being a 'dry' installation the whole thing cannot be air tight and you're throwing bits together that haven't been tested individually let alone all together. The firebox, door, barrel and bench all have possible 'joints of failure'. In my experience unless you have stuck, clamped or screwed two different materials together with a refractory gasket in between you need something 'wet' (cob, clay slip or mortar) to ensure everything is sealed. A gap here and a leak there will have a big impact on performance and efficiency. My 2¢... |
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Post by drooster on Jan 9, 2017 9:41:58 GMT -8
But Morticcio that might delay Brian's first burn,
and I'm keen to see how this goes because I see quality design and materials and I'm betting on a good result.
I'll repeat my older suggestion too : Brian you need an "Igor".
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 10:12:33 GMT -8
I 'liked' this project when I saw your first post. However, I have just read through your subsequent posts and have some reservations... Being a 'dry' installation the whole thing cannot be air tight and you're throwing bits together that haven't been tested individually let alone all together. The firebox, door, barrel and bench all have possible 'joints of failure'. In my experience unless you have stuck, clamped or screwed two different materials together with a refractory gasket in between you need something 'wet' (cob, clay slip or mortar) to ensure everything is sealed. A gap here and a leak there will have a big impact on performance and efficiency. My 2¢... Hi Mortico, I am very aware that air can enter in anywhere, having come from Beta testing wood stoves for the model in my avatar, which is why I used aluminum tape on all stove pipe seems and where the stove pipe entered or exited the barrels. I'm going to seal all the joints of the firebricks and the pavers on top of the bench on the outside with Great Stuff Foam Spray for flame and smoke protection. www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WyK6VDUmFcI have no control over how airtight the stove door is, though I don't think it's too bad, but the firebox itself and the barrel is as airtight as I was physically able to make it with the ceramic fiber blanket insulation to seal them. And a friend labelled these photos for the secondary air path so that he was clear on what I was illustrating:   |
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 11:39:25 GMT -8
But Morticcio that might delay Brian's first burn, and I'm keen to see how this goes because I see quality design and materials and I'm betting on a good result. I'll repeat my older suggestion too : Brian you need an "Igor". Right this second I need someone who knows how to solder copper tubing connections because my brother was sick last night and works out of town during the week, meaning that I either wait till this weekend to finish the plumbing and therefore the bench, or I quickly teach myself how to sweat copper then do it myself. Where's Igor?!? |
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Post by keithturtle on Jan 9, 2017 12:10:40 GMT -8
I quickly teach myself how to sweat copper then do it myself. Where's Igor?!? Igor's down at the river. Soldering is simple if you remember the first three rules: Clean all parts well There can't be any dirt on it It has got to be clean! Once you get that far, now you can spread the past flux on each joint, Use nitrile gloves, or wash hands afterwards. Fit pieces together and see where the joint overlap ends. That is where you apply the solder, but point the torch at the opposite end and watch it turn color This guy covers it well www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmccA2k9VCAUse a wire toothbrush on the inside fittings and you don't need that special round brush. Try to find 50/50 lead tin solder, it's easier to learn with. Use solid wire solder, not acid core or rosin core, they are for other applications Turtle |
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 12:37:52 GMT -8
Thanks, I've picked up everything I need, I might as well learn how to sweat copper too!
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Post by drooster on Jan 9, 2017 12:49:22 GMT -8
But Morticcio that might delay Brian's first burn, and I'm keen to see how this goes because I see quality design and materials and I'm betting on a good result. I'll repeat my older suggestion too : Brian you need an "Igor". Right this second I need someone who knows how to solder copper tubing connections because my brother was sick last night and works out of town during the week, meaning that I either wait till this weekend to finish the plumbing and therefore the bench, or I quickly teach myself how to sweat copper then do it myself. Where's Igor?!? Igor can't do soldering. He's the guy for lifting heavy bricks. Ask around the village for an Igor. Save your own back. (I am my own Igor right now) Point the hot blowtorch at the copper pipe ... melt solder ... allow to cool. Apparently it needs to be clean  and don't set alight to all the sawdust/straw/foam/money. |
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 13:05:05 GMT -8
Right this second I need someone who knows how to solder copper tubing connections because my brother was sick last night and works out of town during the week, meaning that I either wait till this weekend to finish the plumbing and therefore the bench, or I quickly teach myself how to sweat copper then do it myself. Where's Igor?!? Igor can't do soldering. He's the guy for lifting heavy bricks. Ask around the village for an Igor. Save your own back. (I am my own Igor right now) Point the hot blowtorch at the copper pipe ... melt solder ... allow to cool. Apparently it needs to be clean and don't set alight to all the sawdust/straw/foam/money. My dad was a retired plumber and HVAC contractor, so I was able to locate a lot of his old stuff. Money, believe it or not, is actually quite limited for a disabled guy, but I've been collecting all this stove and bench stuff for years. I couldn't afford to just buy it all at once. |
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 15:55:25 GMT -8
One way or another I'm going to test fire this stove this week, even if I have to plug the pipes to the bench and run the cold start bypass.
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 20:12:36 GMT -8
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Post by keithturtle on Jan 9, 2017 21:43:34 GMT -8
how do you know if you did it right? 1) Clean and flux the pipe farther beyond joint before you solder and observe the flow. Your joint can't show a seal cuz it needs cleaned farther 2) Solder a pipe thread fitting somewhere so you can pressurize it and check for leaks 3) Lumpy joints are cold. Hot on clean copper slicks out like a mirror, = good joint You are off to an excellent start; I admire your determination. Pops would be proud Turtle |
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Post by briank on Jan 9, 2017 21:47:25 GMT -8
how do you know if you did it right? 1) Clean and flux the pipe farther beyond joint before you solder and observe the flow. Your joint can't show a seal cuz it needs cleaned farther 2) Solder a pipe thread fitting somewhere so you can pressurize it and check for leaks You are off to an excellent start; I admire your determination Turtle Thanks. I went ahead and soldered 12 joints. I think all of them except one are good, one is questionable. I'm going to pull it apart and redo it then hook up the pump tomorrow to check for leaks. |
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and don't set alight to all the sawdust/straw/foam/money.
