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Post by bernardbon on May 29, 2013 14:58:58 GMT -8
The project progresses.
I'm waiting for more information from the provider refractory concrete to choose the most suitable product (tabular alumina or corundum).
Moulds also argue. Photos will come later.
Bernard
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Post by satamax on May 29, 2013 20:14:36 GMT -8
Bernard, one think, i think with your design, i'd try to make the opening on the chimney two bricks wide, two perpendicular or oposite sides, and lover the height of the opening by one brick. This way, you could trap a bit more heat. Just an idea. Peter will confirm. You should be ok with the chimney opening placement, but i have the gut feeling that it's a smidge too close to the right side of the batchbox opening.
Anyway, i like it.
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Post by peterberg on May 30, 2013 0:51:45 GMT -8
Bernard, I would think Max is right about the height of the exhaust opening. In your design the top 10 cm of the bench will act as a second bell, the rest is at the same height as the exhaust. Everything that is at the same height or lower than the exhaust won't count as bell surface area fully.
One or the other, the bench is a bell in itself or it will act as an extension to the first. The whole stove would become one single bell in that latter case, this is a leaner design.
In order to let the bench act as a 2nd bell, you have to lower both the in- and outlet sides of it, as low as possible. The exit side is too large, this could be one full brick, 220 wide and 110 mm high, this is sufficiently large. The inlet side could be two half bricks, 110x110 mm.
In the other implementation, which I do prefer by the way, the inlet to the bench is as wide and high as possible. In fact, there should be no wall at all between bell and bench, or at least as little as possible. The outlet side should be 220x110 mm again. In this setup it's not important where the position of the exhaust is relative to the rest, this could be anywhere.
Again, the lower the exhaust opening, the better. I do know of one stove, the outlet of which is in a hole in the floor.
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Post by bernardbon on May 30, 2013 1:40:16 GMT -8
Ok
For the construction I have to break the screed of tile and remove the insulation to achieve the structural slab, total 21 cm. I can use this volume to improve bell bench?
The total exchange surface is not too important in this case? Fear of cool too! condensate and draw?
Bernard,
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Post by peterberg on May 30, 2013 6:01:03 GMT -8
This is an opportunity to do it the right way! Yes, you have to build the stove walls on the structural slab and this will make it possible to, say, fill half of the 21 cm depth with vermiculite or perlite. The entrance to the chimney can thus be built below the original floor level. This will enlarge the total 'working" internal surface of the bell construction.
Beware though, the total internal surface area of the bell, according to the results of Klemen, shouldn't be larger than 6.3 m2 for this 150 mm system. Calculate all the walls, plus the top surfaces, leaving out the floor area and the surroundings of the batch box rocket itself, assuming this is insulating brick of some kind.
What is the chimney stack like, height, also relative to the surroundings, c.s.a., material?
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Post by bernardbon on May 31, 2013 5:11:34 GMT -8
Hello, After modification of the input and output of the bench, total bells 5.91 M2. Led brick fireplace 160x160 mm inside and 260 cm height. And 520 cm insulated pipe 155 mm. Conduit 780 cm total. Primary air comes from outside and passes below the firebox 100 MM. Secondary air taken into the house. The concrete supplier offers me this one www.prosiref-boutique.com/-3x--165--a.htmor that one www.prosiref-boutique.com/-95--153--a.htmBernard,
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Post by bernardbon on May 31, 2013 5:43:14 GMT -8
Here is the material for molds
Formwork plywood, interior volume extruded polystyrene hot wire cut, glue to attach the volumes in the trunk. 12V engine fit on a table.
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Post by satamax on May 31, 2013 8:04:54 GMT -8
Bernard, i don't think you need 1600 or 1800C° concrete. About the mapegrout, i've had a definite answer, it can whistand 1000c° for sure. I don't know if i've had it that high. But it's mixed with vermiculite anyway.
For your chimney and bell ports, i dared doing two modifications, i thought were giving a bit more heat traping and flow.
Hth.
Max.
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Post by bernardbon on May 31, 2013 10:33:24 GMT -8
max, With refractory concrete I'm not looking for extreme temperatures. objectives are mechanical. I need a materials supporting heating cooling cycles (risk cracks) and loads of wood (risk abrasion). I recalled that the walls are 3 cm thick. Life of the stove must be several decades. To support only the temperature that is sufficient concrete www.prosiref-boutique.com/-c140--157--a.htm for 30 Euros. The price of concrete is not representative of the overall cost of the stove about 5%. The cast iron hardware is much more expensive. In this case I do not understand the interest of mapgroupe?
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Post by satamax on May 31, 2013 11:05:53 GMT -8
Hi Bernard. Frankly, i don't know if thoses extreme concretes will be any better. No idea whatsoever about durability. They're high tech stuff. The good thing about mapegrout, it's cheap! 19 euros a 25 kil bag. Yep, you have a fair bit in bricks alone. What are you going to use on that side,, Refractory bricks or normal ones? What about the mortar in between the bricks? Yep cast iron can be expensive. www.coeurdefoyer.fr/catalog/quincaillerie/portes-de-foyers What do you think about the mods i've done to your sketchup drawing? I could not manage to make the bench reapear. Hope this helps. Max.
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Post by peterberg on Jun 1, 2013 0:55:12 GMT -8
Bernard, You do need at the very least a 1200 C. specs refractory concrete, 1000 C. is bound to fail in such a rocket. Your 12V engine for the vibrating table is probably too light. You could use a construction as described in this video, with an old 220V drill underneath and an excenter attached to it.
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Post by bernardbon on Jun 3, 2013 12:15:06 GMT -8
Dank je wel Peter.
Je weet het vuurvaste beton?
Ik wou dat ik je kennis en doe mijn werk! Hetzelfde werk doen als Joris Pouls.
bernard,
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Post by satamax on Jun 3, 2013 12:19:43 GMT -8
Ahhh ben ça y est, il's'met à parler belge!
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Post by bernardbon on Jun 3, 2013 12:58:22 GMT -8
Oh merde,
Putain de traducteur Google !
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Post by peterberg on Jun 3, 2013 12:59:03 GMT -8
Bernard, The forum language is English, please stick to that. Unfortunately, a word by word translation from French to Dutch will end in gobbledygook. ;D
I do know something about refractory concrete, yes. But that's about the kind that's available in the Netherlands. Try to contact one of the LaFarge plants, they should be able to advice what quality will suit your needs best.
Joris Pouls from Belgium is building stoves for several years now, primarily my combustion unit designs. His products are getting better and better, but it did cost a lot of time and the learning curve has been steep. So be warned!
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