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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 3:19:09 GMT -8
Hello all of yours! I am new on the forum and am very interested by the batch box rocket stove. Interested, like everybody, to assure a good mixing between hydrocarbon gases and air I am thinking on venturi principes and applications for a long time. I must add that I am not at all an ingenior! I will try to be clear, which is not my best quality! The port of Peter’s batch box rocket becoming secondary air by a duct acts as a venturi tube where a sudden diminution of size, a schrinkage, induces an acceleration of the fluid in the tube. This acceleration is correlated to a depression. At the point where the depression is the highest is an hole which will suck air (or liquid) . There will happen a big mixing of both gases or fluids. The port acts as the schrinkage (sudden diminution of size) where happens acceleration of our gases coming from the fuel/fire box.This acceleration "creates" a depression which sucs the secondary air. There is then a very good mixing of gases and "fresh" air and a good combustion (thanks to a very hot surrounding/environnement). One of the originalities of Peter's system is that the resulting mixed fluids arrive HORIZONTALLY against a cylinder where the vortex happens. This vortex generaly happens vertically (and not horizontally) in many masonry stoves (and generally without secondary air, what does Kuznetsov). Hydrocarbons (smoke, flames, etc.) will burn completely (our first goal and dream) and if possible without excess of air (another big goal and dream). That is what happens in a carburetor, for example, Attachment DeletedAttachment DeletedAttachment DeletedThis venturi system is often used in recent wood boilers to have good specs. |
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Post by satamax on Nov 3, 2013 4:37:09 GMT -8
Benoit, not ingenior engineer, or design engineer.  |
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 6:05:41 GMT -8
It's not easy for me, my attachemeents disappear! I try again : Schematics about venturi princip :    |
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 6:09:53 GMT -8
Yes! I go on : Kuznetsov boiler:  Kuznetsov stove :  Commercial boiler :  Benoit |
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 6:42:55 GMT -8
My question is : how to size the stove?
How did Peter find out the good proportions, his "base number" and so on? Why 72.34%?
Have a nice fire!
Benoit
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Post by satamax on Nov 3, 2013 8:17:17 GMT -8
You will have to wait for peter to reply! |
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Post by peterberg on Nov 3, 2013 9:07:38 GMT -8
My question is : how to size the stove? How did Peter find out the good proportions, his "base number" and so on? Why 72.34%? Benoit, The only way I know is to do a lot of footwork. It took me 6 months to find out proportions that did work as wished for. Somebody else on this forum worked out the base number which appeared to be 72.34% of the riser diameter. Since the riser is the system size, it would only be logical to use that to scale the whole stove up or down. Nothing more, nothing less. When you want reliable results, experiment until you drop. Actually, there is no other way, calculation can only been done when the method and formula is worked out by somebody. In this instance that somebody appeared to be me. |
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 11:12:21 GMT -8
Hello everybody, hello Peter
I am surprised , amazed by the work you made about rocket stoves and I did not well understand that you (and other) discovered things by trial and errors -and testing.
I am even more amazed!
I am also surprised by the time you give to share with others!
The fact is maybe that I don't dare enough! I do experiment, but without an apparatus (analyser) I feel blind!
Peter, is it complicated to use an analyser?
And are they all at 3000 euros?
Have a nice fire
Benoit
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Post by satamax on Nov 3, 2013 11:35:24 GMT -8
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 12:27:24 GMT -8
Thank you Satamax!
Well, it is rather expensive but still affordable.
I thought it was much much more expensive! And I didn't imagine to find it on leboncoin!
Is it difficult to use?
The truth is that very few stove masons do use this...(I think that in Austria or Germany they must have one)
And I suppose that it is not so easy to discover the real (true) caracteristics, the actual results of your stoves...
Never to late!
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Post by peterberg on Nov 3, 2013 12:41:25 GMT -8
Peter, is it complicated to use an analyser? And are they all at 3000 euros? No, it's not complicated to use an analyser. But it helps to follow a course to learn how to interpret the results. There are some do's and don'ts which has to be told by somebody. Testo isn't very clear about how to use the apparatus mainly because it's not often bought by amateurs. And the Testo 330-2 LL that I'm using is not designed for continuously running. It can take it, but you have to take some precautions and be alert not to allow burned oil vapors to enter the thing, for example. No, there are not all 3000 Euri. But it can be summed up to quite a nice total. |
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Post by Donkey on Nov 3, 2013 13:16:18 GMT -8
Your nose is a very good analyzer, much better than you would think! Most testing can be done simply by sniffing the exhaust. When you get down to a place where you can no longer smell the difference between your tests, THEN you might need a testo. I've never owned a testo.. I would very much like one, but still at this time, I would find it difficult to justify the expense to the wife.  |
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 4, 2013 1:13:28 GMT -8
Thanks for your answers
1. Well I can not use my nose when my last masonry (bell) stove is linked to the exiting flue at my client's home. I should go on the roof!
2. And with my experiments , it is not always possible either :
- often the stove is insides and I can not the fumes leave in the place
- or it is linked in order to mimick the normal conditions
- or it is linked to have the good draft
3. Observing, understanding what happens all along the firing needs allready a lot of attention, of care. It is hard to watch here, smell there, listen also all together. With a curve (and I am not found at all of curves or technically advanced little machines!), you separate the time of firing and watching from the time to analyse the results.
4. And the analyser sees AND records important things you can not smell like oxygen rate.
I must think about that since one can find an analyser at around 400 euros second hand. It is a lot and I don't like technology! But without it, no batch box system elaborated by Peter by trial and errors (and brain's juce of course!). But I don't like technology! (that's why I was a baker -with hands and wood oven- or why I build masonry stoves which existed from about 800 after christ till today!)
Hard choice!
Have a nice day! (as I have no computer at home...and many no other things! I will come back only a few days later! This week-end with a computer was an exception! I was very ecxited to "speak" with you as I am a bit alone in my countryside (speaking about stoves). But it took me so much time and it makes totally dependant, hoping answers and so on! What an experiment! (without a Testo, nor my nose but only my two or three fingers!). But it excited me!
Thak you again for sharing, for time spent to answer and so on!
Time goes on with computers and forums, it's horrible!
A stove under construction (three in fact, experimental for friends or collective place) wait for me...
Read you later!
Benoit
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 4, 2013 1:21:12 GMT -8
And I have to cut wood also (spilt?)! Not bone dry nor 5x5 cm!
I leave I leave!
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