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Post by pyrophile on Nov 1, 2013 15:16:18 GMT -8
Hello ! Bonjour! I'm reading your very interesting forum for a while and I try now to participate (but I am not good in computers and internet!)
I am building a 8" batch box rocket for a rather big place dedicated to theater and music. I am also building a smaller one (4") for my place (I build one each year). I add that I am a (little) masonry stove builder, building mainly Chernov kind of stoves (about 25 stoves only, which is not a lot) . I am also looking around about everything interesting, trying things, playing in order to find cheap solutions for heating : everybody can not afford a traditional expensive masonry stove (not me either!). I try also to share as much as I can.
-I would like to ask to Peter who uses instruments if there is a big difference on curves with bigger pieces of wood (about 8 to 10 cm in diameter = 4”) and with standard 20% humidity rate ?(instead of small and bone dry pieces of wood)
-Would’nt it be also a way to have longer burns?
Many Thanks Have a nice day Benoit
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 1, 2013 16:26:05 GMT -8
Hello! I 'd like to add that the 8"" system will be connected to a huge 1000 liters cylindrical water container, 170 cm high *100 cm in diameter (used to bring water to cows in the fields). Vertically positionned on the heat riser, the metal container must heat the big and HIGH room. The idea is to lower external temperature and then the exchange by convection (the room is quite high!). I might be totally wrong but I suppose that metal favors convection as it exchanges heat with air very well in comparison with other materials.
One of the goals is to have more convenient (longer) burns thanks to bigger pieces of wood (and dense wood if possible).
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Post by satamax on Nov 1, 2013 20:30:00 GMT -8
Guys, IIRC, i think some guys here have found that with little sticks of wetter wood,(not bone dry) in the horizontal batch rocket, the heat produced was very strong, and it goes in the "pulse mode" Tho, no longer burns.
Since you seem to be both French, and know each other, i'll ask, where from. There's another two guys here who are french, or may be three, but haven't seen any for a while.
And about the water tank, it's nice to have round, but i'd say nicer to have square, to transform the bells into mass heaters. I am looking to have a rectangular tall "radiator" made, a shape like old metallic lockers (casiers vestiaires) Onto which i could pile up blocks of something around. And later on, i want to use a home heating fuel tank (cuve à fioul) . A thousand liter one, seems perfectly suited to six inchers, having an internal surface area (isa) of about 5m², not accounting for the floor. And thoses go for cheap on leboncoin. Only prob, i don't have the space right now.
Hth.
Max.
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 2, 2013 3:25:05 GMT -8
Hi Satamax Both post before are from me, may be it was not clear! I am from Bretagne. And You? French, Canadian? I understand that I was not clear : I don’t need any mass because the stove will be used only a few days per month as the big room is used only sometimes for music, theater shows and so on. I want full heat of the heater, if possible at human height and not under the roof! I then aim rather low surface temperature on a big radiating volume at human heigh . I choosed a round container because it’s easier for me to find barrels or the 1000l container (une tonne à eau) than arectangular one. It was free. Why do you look for a container? . Bells are generally brick made . When building masonry bell stoves (my job) , I use bricks or sometimes dense concrete blocks (parpaing pleins in French) that are much cheaper but not funny to use You need a mix of sand and clay (terre argileuse) or sand + lime (chaux) to build your air tight accumulator/radiator. Then you put your earthen or lime plaster. Bye Benoit
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 2, 2013 3:33:57 GMT -8
Still me... About efficiency I wanted to know if there is a BIG difference with "normal" wood and see curves if existing. I am surprised that the burn does not last longer (I'd like to, it's true!).
Have a nice day! Bye Benoit
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Post by satamax on Nov 2, 2013 4:37:44 GMT -8
Hi Benoit.
Well, here i did a mistake. I was thinking Plauale was on this post too.
I'm from Serre chevalier, in the alps, right on the italian border. Benoit, for the moment, planing to move from my crappy flat to a bigger workshop and house above one day. I'm looking for a bell which can be made air tight, but won't weight too much, and be able to dry stack bricks, parpaings, moelons, pierre du gard or whatnot around it. So rectangular or square is what i'm looking for. I would realy like a 170cm x 50x50 piece of square tubing closed at one end. I might have found one. For the next rocket. But for one who wants to go the same way as me. A fuel tank of a thousand liters is perfect. 5 squatre metre isa, in which you can fit a batch rocket.
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 2, 2013 7:10:39 GMT -8
Hi again satamax First time I write so much on a computer! Speaking is so easier! Yes, I'm rather old school... Building air tight is NO problem, very easy. The main goal is to balance radiating surface area and mass/width of wall to have nice temperatures for 24 hours along. There are two different schools, I guess : 1. evaluating thanks to experience or 2. calculating (not my way, but certainly a good way,but balanced with experience too). For me, the way is to ask for plans of the house to understand the different volumes of the houses, to know the different materials involved, the kind of insulation and so on. Then I can imagine the type of stove, its size, its external materials (earthen bricks -briques de terre crue- or fired bricks -briques cuites- for example). A one to one ton and an half bell stove can heat a straw bale house for 24 hours or a little house like mine. But it is difficult for me to say anything without plans and caracteristics of the building. In my opinion, but I can be wrong, surface area makes sense only for metal container without added mass. That is the way I work : nude metal goes with continuous firing (but good efficiency), mass goes with intermittent fires, once or twice a day.
For the calculating side, you can see on french forum "construction realiste d'un poele de masse" the very interesting calculating methods of "Lutopiste" and "Xelyx"(Xelyx.com and lutopie.ue) with many curves, simulations and calculating details (for thickness of walls for example).
Have a nice rainy day! (here in Bretagne) Benoit
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Post by satamax on Nov 2, 2013 7:30:52 GMT -8
Rainy on this side too.
I don't know if you've done big volume metal bells before. But they're quite impressive. My green machine has about a metre and a half radiating surface. I lose a lot to power the different parts of the horizontal, vertical, then horizontal chimney tubes, then the vertical outside brick chimney. But when the stove dies out, the bell, being just metal still stays warm to the touch for several hours.
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Post by pyrophile on Nov 3, 2013 1:18:39 GMT -8
Hi Satamax If you want to have a lot of inertie, you need a lot of mass which often goes with large radiating surface. My stoves (brick, concrete blocks, etc.) radiate on 8 to 12 m2 (sq meters). At low temperature. If you have less surface you must rise your surface temperature to radiate the same power (things are more complicated but let's say so). The 8" metal stove (batch box) I began to build is about 5.5 M2. Metal must be nude and well warm to heat the big and not isolated show place. In a house, I would put earth on it. I would keep this surface but the inertie won't be enough with only a few centimeters of clay plaster on it. In my opinion.
Have a nice Fire Benoit
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