Post by New farmers in rural South Chi on Aug 10, 2018 23:18:59 GMT -8
Hello, I am a new farmer from the rural areas of southern China. I am fortunate to read your shared article today. The design wood stoves you provided are very environmentally friendly compared to China's firewood stoves. I hope to provide detailed production processes and processes. Do it yourself. Thank you, I contacted the email: twt2002@gmail.com, I can get your advice.
The only thing I'd change is to route the air differently so as to not take the heat from the firebox roof or secondary burn chamber.
I must have overloooked this words of yours. Have You come up with any solution on how to implement that idea, yet?
Where to preheat the tertiary air then (thermal battery is too cold at that time)? In the space between the cookplate and the roof of secondary burn chamber?
Btw. As I do get along with your aesthetics I can hardly believe you left the tertiary air inlet whole without some camouflage. Am I right?
I left the tertiary air inlet unfinished as I wanted to see if the hole size was large enough first, didn't want to waste time making something only to have to change it later. I've been using a large magnet as a temporary control.
Ideally I think I would route the tertiary air in front of the exit of the secondary burn chamber, then down into the firebox roof, something like this
I see...Well I'll try to implement it... if possible..
Now while sketching I realized I didn't know the dimensions of the passage in the CFB. (ie. the passage from the secondary burn chamber to the under cookstove plate chamber (any name for that part of teh stove?)).
While perusing over teh photos of Pat's setup I couldn't figure out whether he shortened the part that in your setup was made of a ceramic fiber board or the one visible on teh photo is just another piece of it to prohibit flames from shattering the plate directly at their full speed.
Am I staying too long in front of teh display and having visual hallucinations or his setup has flue gases exit situated in the front part instead of in the rear one?
That tertiary air thing's just an idea, I haven't tested it out yet. The reasoning was because I found that the air channels through the firebox roof were cooling it at startup, and I was getting black lines forming on the surface where the air channels are inside. I've never liked the idea of taking heat from the firebox for secondary or tertiary combustion, it sounds to much like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I found a simpler solution though by not opening the tertiary air until about 30 minutes into the burn, by then the firebox is thoroughly hot and it doesn't happen any more. Your build would have a lot more opportunities for preheating air by routing it through the mass like Patamos did, mine is so compact there isn't a lot of room for it.
Patamos' stove in the pictures doesn't have the double switchback like my new one, his secondary burn chamber is the chamber directly under the hotplate. I think that's what's confusing you.
The secondary burn chamber - the one above the firebox but below the cooktop chamber - is one CSA, (which luckily for me here a standard firebrick size) 230mm X 75mm. This picture should make it easier to see. The bricks are 9" X 3" X 4.5" / 230mm X 75mm X 114mm
I've never liked the idea of taking heat from the firebox for secondary or tertiary combustion, it sounds to much like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Yes, exactly. That's why our cook stove will also play a role of a rocket p-channel air preheater. In the projected setup the air is delivered under the ash box and it goes by a narrow channel into a chamber behind the firebox (of its size) where its velocity is supposed to decrease and absorb some energy from the ceiling (which is a floor of normal flue gases route)then it is directed leftwards and there (on the left side of the firebox )I projected its inlet to the firebox.
I found a simpler solution though by not opening the tertiary air until about 30 minutes into the burn, by then the firebox is thoroughly hot and it doesn't happen any more. Your build would have a lot more opportunities for preheating air by routing it through the mass like Patamos did, mine is so compact there isn't a lot of room for it.
Patamos' stove in the pictures doesn't have the double switchback like my new one, his secondary burn chamber is the chamber directly under the hotplate. I think that's what's confusing you.
Precisely! I also thought about skipping this part. Did you place the switchback so as not to overheat your cookplate?
Maybe I should really skip the switchback in my setup as our stove's primary role is to allow cooking for a (hopefully) numerous workshop attendants and visitors. And the cook plate is relatively thick and large ( 98x 120 x 1cm) with huge stove lids.
The secondary burn chamber - the one above the firebox but below the cooktop chamber - is one CSA, (which luckily for me here a standard firebrick size) 230mm X 75mm. This picture should make it easier to see. The bricks are 9" X 3" X 4.5" / 230mm X 75mm X 114mm
Thanks. pics are always so helpful. Here the firebricks size is 230x65x114. have you received more pics from Patamos' build?
Somewhere back in the thread Patamos and myself discussed the idea of introducing tertiary air through the throat with an insulated horizontal 'heat riser', so that was me trying it out. It does protect the cooktop from damage from over heating, but also takes a bit longer to get up to cooking temperatures. If I were building a stove primarily for cooking using a commercially made cooktop, I would use a single switchback or try out that new Aryan style afterburner that I've been working on.
Those are all the pics I got from Pat, he says he has a video but has lost the camera cable.
Somewhere back in the thread Patamos and myself discussed the idea of introducing tertiary air through the throat with an insulated horizontal 'heat riser', so that was me trying it out.
Today I read again the whole Vortex thread & realized how much I missed (didn't remember from the lecture of it :-() I'm still hesitating on the issue of single or double switchback but at least I'm familiar witha name "V-port" :-). I'll sit with sketchup tonight so it will be the decisive point of no return.
The V-Port idea was to make a standard sized Vortex stove firebox, but with a changeable modular insert on top, so you could try out different port, throat, secondary burn chamber, afterburner configurations. I'd forgotten where the idea originated and that we'd given it a name until Jura mentioned it.
I got around to doing it this summer, over the last few months I've spent my evenings experimenting with a different variation nearly every night. This one's my favorite. It was inspired by a video that docbb posted a link to a couple of years ago, and ever since I've really wanted to try out an Aryan style afterburner.
Your V-port construction is almost exactly like what I did last year. Although I called it a "double shoebox rocket", it was the same construction, a small and narrow port lengthwise in the rear ceiling part of the firebox and a smaller second box on top, inducing what is commonly known as the double vortex. See the thread donkey32.proboards.com/thread/2341/different-batch-core-riser-all.
Since I use a Testo gas analiser I found out the double vortex wasn't as clean in this configuration. It ran smokeless, oh yes, but the thing produced quite some peaks in the CO department, a sign of incomplete combustion. My favourite configuration at the moment is a top box with a nearly square cross section area. The resulting flame pattern isn't like a vortex but more what I would call a "chaotic fire fountain". This setup was running much cleaner and the exhaust gases cleared up as soon as the flames made it through the port. This configuration produces a longer complete combustion period during the burn than it's double vortex counterpart. See this video: www.facebook.com/attiliocesareguadagno/videos/10214437755916241/
Also, the secondary air provision I figured out worked much better than all other methods of air provision I tried. Simple to make and simple to replace. See the thread about this.
The only reason why I won't do any more research on it is the fact that it tend to be very temperamental, getting into thermal overdrive about 10% to 15% of the measured runs. Resulting in a very dirty burn. My goal is to design simple to build combustion cores which could be built by almost anyone with two right hands. This double shoebox design requires careful tuning and probably also a kind of "brake" further downstream in the system.
The Aryan style afterburner is much slower to get clean, probably due to the fact that the port is too wide.
Last Edit: Aug 20, 2018 1:12:03 GMT -8 by peterberg
Your V-port construction is almost exactly like what I did last year. Although I called it a "double shoebox rocket", it was the same construction, a small and narrow port lengthwise in the rear ceiling part of the firebox and a smaller second box on top, inducing what is commonly known as the double vortex. See the thread donkey32.proboards.com/thread/2341/different-batch-core-riser-all.
Hi Peter,
Yes, I followed your DSR thread with interest. I wasn't claiming to have invented it. The Russian video docbb posted from 2011 called it the 'Furnace of the Ancient Aryan's. I couldn't find any evidence to support the name though. Max, ssr and Pinhead all theorised about the possibility of a firebox with a port in the ceiling a few years back, if I remember correctly at the time you said it wouldn't work
Since I use a Testo gas analiser I found out the double vortex wasn't as clean in this configuration. It ran smokeless, oh yes, but the thing produced quite some peaks in the CO department, a sign of incomplete combustion. My favourite configuration at the moment is a top box with a nearly square cross section area. The resulting flame pattern isn't like a vortex but more what I would call a "chaotic fire fountain". This setup was running much cleaner and the exhaust gases cleared up as soon as the flames made it through the port. This configuration produces a longer complete combustion period during the burn than it's double vortex counterpart. See this video: www.facebook.com/attiliocesareguadagno/videos/10214437755916241/
Also, the secondary air provision I figured out worked much better than all other methods of air provision I tried. Simple to make and simple to replace. See the thread about this.
My main interest is the ascetics, so long as there's no smoke that's good enough for me - My nearest neighbour is over a mile away and they burn all their plastic rubbish, so I'm not doing bad. The purpose of my experiments was to see if I could work out how to make an Aryan style afterburner that I could just drop into the top of my new Vortex stove.
One of the many variations that I tried out was your DSR, it was the same dimensions except that the boxes were both wider and shorter than yours, but proportionally the same otherwise. I tried 3 burns in it with the same secondary air setup that you use. I didn't pursue it any more as it doesn't produce the lovely vortexes that I'm primarily interested in.
The only reason why I won't do any more research on it is the fact that it tend to be very temperamental, getting into thermal overdrive about 10% to 15% of the measured runs. Resulting in a very dirty burn. My goal is to design simple to build combustion cores which could be built by almost anyone with two right hands. This double shoebox design requires careful tuning and probably also a kind of "brake" further downstream in the system.
The Aryan style afterburner is much slower to get clean, probably due to the fact that the port is too wide.
Yes, in my experiments I found a rectangular port of 50% CSA (50mm X 175mm) to work best, but best of all was when that was combined with a throat at the front top of 87% CSA (67mm X 230mm). With this setup I have no problems with over-fuelling and get nice long steady burns.
I don't use your style secondary air setup though, I found that it interfered with the double-vortex. I tried introducing heated secondary air in in many different ways, through a line of holes all around the inside edges of the port made the vortexes erratic, like in the 'WilliCoyote' video I posted. In the end I found just a small amount of secondary air introduced at the front inside edges of the port to be the best (20mm X 8mm either side). This has the effect of making the vortexes conical as the introduction of denser gases forces the lighter ones into the centre which makes nice spirals. It also seems to help keep the double-vortex in the back of the box. This type of setup doesn't seem to need as much artificially introduced secondary air as others, I think that is because a lot of primary air goes straight over the top of the fire and up through the port.
Shame you won't be doing any more research on it. I'll post up my dimensions if anyone else wants to try it out.
fierolepou: Hi everybody! Starting a project from scratch, this is a goldmine!
Dec 10, 2022 5:20:09 GMT -8
Solomon: Best way to not die in a house fire is to build a stove where the really hot stuff isn't near the flammable stuff.
Jan 10, 2023 11:34:39 GMT -8
beppe: Hi to everybpdy. I'm new about the rocket stoves and this forum
Aug 30, 2023 22:17:32 GMT -8
beppe: I have a living room+ kitchen of 75 square meters that was heated by an ordinary pellet stove with a power of 8KW.
Aug 30, 2023 22:19:29 GMT -8
beppe: I want to switch to a DIY pellet rocket stove but I haven't found yet a project that is really suitable for my situation. Is there anybody able to indicate to me a good detailed project?
Sept 4, 2023 9:05:15 GMT -8
sksshel: Yes, very happy with my DSR2. I had not heard about the DSR3. I probably won't be using it but I will look into it.
Oct 16, 2023 9:15:37 GMT -8
rockinon: I have some questions about a Rocket Mass Heater, as I am in progress of getting a place built in Arkansas in the mountains of NW Arkansas and it will be very helpful. How can I add pictures to illustrate what I am requesting
Jan 23, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -8
dd24: Bonjour, Quelqu'un expérimente t-il sur les poêles "bubafonya" ou "stopuva"? merci pour votre réponse!
Mar 2, 2024 10:32:32 GMT -8
marcios: Hi Trev, What dimensions did you keep for the top chamber?
May 9, 2024 13:41:47 GMT -8
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Donkey: rockinon, place them on some other web hosting service and link them here.
Jun 27, 2024 16:25:24 GMT -8
atrii: How can I see these photos Donkey?
Jul 16, 2024 16:17:59 GMT -8
Donkey: atrii When the images are properly linked, they will be visible.
Jul 21, 2024 19:02:47 GMT -8
dvawolk: For images i use "Greenshot" app - i can print screen part or whole of my screen and upload them directly to imgur throught the context menu. Works very well and fast for me...
Aug 21, 2024 2:21:17 GMT -8
martinm: Hi there , looking for info on hot water heat exchanger for integrating in the bell of masonry rocket stove.
Sept 10, 2024 3:43:38 GMT -8
lightworker: Hi beppe:
Oct 19, 2024 16:45:02 GMT -8
