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Post by satamax on Sept 10, 2012 11:10:33 GMT -8
Peter, you bet that i hope to find the right blocks too. I have peeled my eyes on leboncoin yesterday, to no avail. Nother thing i could use is wide gutter chanel for roads etc. I have a guy selling tons of footpath edge localy. 1 euro apiece. www.leboncoin.fr/bricolage/355422612.htm?ca=21_s I could stack this on each side of the bell, and forget about the second bell. Thought, i won't have the cooling effect of the barrel. Still in the limbs. |
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Post by peterberg on Sept 10, 2012 11:28:22 GMT -8
What you propose is to make the walls of the bell substantially fatter. Not as good an option as two bells. The heat extraction of two bells is far more effective compared to just one, irrespective of the thickness of the walls.
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Post by satamax on Sept 10, 2012 12:02:08 GMT -8
Ok Peter. I will have to pop round the other building suplier, and go to blanchet, on the other side of the border.
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Post by satamax on Sept 10, 2012 12:18:33 GMT -8
Peter, what about a bigger single bell?
50x50 inside, 63x63 outside on the landini catalog, page 11. I've done a bit of work on my crane today. And i'm tired. Not keen on drawing anything. But at the start i was going to do a barrel in the usual rocket way, out of a big water boiler. Tho i can do à bell with it. And lay out mass under my sofa. Main prob for me is to make a movable mass, and keep the contact between the pipe and the mass.
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Post by peterberg on Sept 11, 2012 2:14:29 GMT -8
Peter, what about a bigger single bell? 50x50 inside, 63x63 outside on the landini catalog, page 11. Max, The capacity of the bell to extract heat is coupled to the internal surface area. The floor doesn't do anything, so the wall and the ceiling are taken into account. I've done the math and yesterday's concrete elements option summed up to 5.44 m2 (58 sq ft) and 670 kg (1480 lbs). The single bell made from the largest chimney elements of Landini, holding the same combustion chamber totaled to 3.8 m2 (40.9 sq ft) and 270 kg (595 lbs). placing the combustion chamber outside this bell would let the surface area raise to 4.25 m2 (45.7 sq ft). These large elements are earthenware and better heat shock resistant but quite costly. The second largest elements are much cheaper, and using one size of 52x62 cm (20.5x24.4") and another of 30x50 cm (11.8x19.7") for the bells would sum up to 5.83 m2 (62.8 sq ft) inside area. The combined weight of the mantle pieces would be 388 kg (855 lbs) and look like this: ![]() pberg0.home.xs4all.nl/pictures/Batchbox/maxhorizontal ocket4.jpg[/img] This is a viable alternative of better quality but less mass. Of course I don't know whether you can fit it in, but maybe a couple of cm's extra can be found in your hearth. And of course you can make the top plate as heavy as you like in order to add to the mass. The SketchUp file is here:Edit:For this setup: you do need one pallet of the larger an two pallets of the smaller elements. Which will cost about half of two pallets of the largest argilla elements. |
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Post by satamax on Sept 11, 2012 2:38:55 GMT -8
Thanks a lot Peter. You're doing the work for me!  The problem is that i can't seem to find the right sizes. My local supplier has some double wall concrete chimney blocks. Smallest is 30x30 outside, and biggest 40x40 may be. Nothing else. I'll have to rumage through the piles, see what is there exactly. The other supplier, i barely ever go to. And in italy, huh, i think they see me comming pricewise. Same, they don't have all the landini catalog. |
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Post by satamax on Sept 11, 2012 7:21:04 GMT -8
Hi Peter.
Well, talked to my supplier. And his supplier. Found some single wall 40x58, 32.5x50 inside dimension. 52kil apiece for 18 euros. 252 euros for the bell. Tough! I might be able to fit it. I thought of inverting the furniture in my flat.
I edited, cos i was talking gibberish. Not 17 blocks, but 14. That saves a bit.
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Post by satamax on Sept 11, 2012 8:33:11 GMT -8
Well, here's the latest ketchup file. Attachments:
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Post by peterberg on Sept 11, 2012 9:46:25 GMT -8
@max,
Looks like it can be done this way. The space at the right side of the firebox won't heat up by the hot gases, only by conduction. Nothing much to gain by turning the firebox 90 degrees. At 52 kg (115 lbs) a piece I do presume these are concrete elements?
Wish I could buy them here, that would make a quick and elegant test stove.
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Post by satamax on Sept 11, 2012 11:26:17 GMT -8
Yep Peter, concrete elements. You might not be able to buy in Holland, but i'm pretty sure you can find similar ones in belgium. I was thinking also about suage elements. That i'm prety sure you can buy localy. All sorts of size and shapes. www.google.fr/search?q=regard+b%C3%A9ton&hl=fr&rlz=1T4ADFA_frFR472FR472&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=mXxPUO6iEaHN0QWu2YFo&ved=0CCYQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=552I have turned the firebox, so so it wouldn't face the piece of furniture next to it. If i could redrill the wall at the tube entrance, i could fit it the other way. But then i'd still have to do à plunger tube inside the second bell. Or use this solution of turning the whole thing and make a longer firebox I know i can gain a fair bit, fitting the tube behind the firebox. You think i should center it? Well, anyway, i did the mod Attachments:
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Post by satamax on Sept 11, 2012 11:33:12 GMT -8
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Post by peterberg on Sept 12, 2012 1:20:36 GMT -8
Or use this solution of turning the whole thing and make a longer firebox I know i can gain a fair bit, fitting the tube behind the firebox. You think i should center it? Max, seems alright to me. Only one small niggle: the gases pass along the hot firebox on the way out, and will inevitably warm up a bit. |
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Post by satamax on Sept 12, 2012 3:09:01 GMT -8
Peter, they do pass along. But if i do this, it gonna be insulated firebox anyway. But look what i have inherited today! Doesn't it cries aloud, "turn me into a rocket stove! Turn me into a rocket stove!" Attachments:
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Post by peterberg on Sept 12, 2012 6:16:44 GMT -8
But look what i have inherited today! Doesn't it cries aloud, "turn me into a rocket stove! Turn me into a rocket stove!" I've listened carefully, but couldn't hear such a cry. Maybe too far away? Being ready before winter, that's important in my view. So, sooner or later you have to make a choice and stick to it. Otherwise, it's a next-year stove. ;D |
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Post by satamax on Sept 12, 2012 7:05:01 GMT -8
Quite right Peter.
The batch box bell rocket is very apealing, but i don't have mucho muneys lately. I'll see. For the moment on the good days, it's still around 26/27 in the shade. So i can rely on solar power for the moment. Till mid october usualy. But then by the end of october, i start heating a bit. Thye earliers big snow i've seen since i live here, 80cm on the 28th of october, and lasted till april.
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The problem is that i can't seem to find the right sizes. My local supplier has some double wall concrete chimney blocks. Smallest is 30x30 outside, and biggest 40x40 may be. Nothing else. I'll have to rumage through the piles, see what is there exactly. The other supplier, i barely ever go to. And in italy, huh, i think they see me comming pricewise. Same, they don't have all the landini catalog. 
