Best deals on ceramic fiber board?

[flyman]

Where do you guys find the best prices on ceramic fiberboard? Also can fire brick be cut or a table saw using a certain kind of blade. A while 
back I remember some guy saying to soak it in water before cutting but I do not remember the kind of blade he used. Or would I be better 
off renting a abrasive saw of some kind to do it. Hey this is new to me, I,m a retired tool & Die maker, machinist, welder. This is a different 
cat to the skills I have done, over the years.   

         Fly🤔

[Dan (Upstate NY, USA)]

Dust mask and an angle grinder or old table saw with a diamond blade has worked well with me over the years.

But then again I didn't have to cut tons of fire brick, just a few here or there.

And this was all cheap dense fire brick. Not the soft insulating kind.

[fiedia]

For the soft bricks, I used a thick hand saw. The kind sold for aerated concrete (Ytong, siporex).

I used also a table saw with diamond blade and water.

Brick suppliers specify that one can use diamond blade but water is required to cool down the blade. Otherwise, it will not last.

[masonryrocketstove]

May 3, 2023 8:10:16 GMT -8 fiedia said:

For the soft bricks, I used a thick hand saw. The kind sold for aerated concrete (Ytong, siporex).

I used also a table saw with diamond blade and water.

Brick suppliers specify that one can use diamond blade but water is required to cool down the blade. Otherwise, it will not last.

Great advice.

For cutting dense bricks, that wet brick and tile saw with diamond blade is something that a lot of home improvement / hardware stores in the US will rent out on a per-day basis, 'cause they're pretty expensive to buy. There was a post somewhere around here with a video on how to use them..

ah, here we go. had to search the forum from google to find it: donkey32.proboards.com/post/37944/thread


I think proboards must use an older search algorithm, or they don't index posts' text the same way google search engine does. When I've had a specific topic I wanted to find, I've usually found the most relevant content by searching for it on google (following "donkey32.proboards" I used keyword terms "wet tile brick saw" and popped this one up right away. Couldn't find it searching from the proboards search function.)


..just thought that little tip/trick might be helpful for other folks looking for specific info here on the boards.

[flyman]

I,m thinking about lining the inside of the rocket stove burn chamber & the heat riser with ceramic fiber board. I will most likely counter sink the fiber board & use
SS flat head screws to attach it to the walls of the burn chamber & heat riser for i would not think high temp glue or some thing as that would last. What are your thoughts.
Oh what would be the thinnest fiber board would you use. The reason I ask is keep cost down.

Fly🤔

[masonryrocketstove]

May 16, 2023 9:11:33 GMT -8 flyman said:

What are your thoughts.
Oh what would be the thinnest fiber board would you use. The reason I ask is keep cost down.

I’m thinking you need to consider the actual temperature ranges and chemically caustic environments a rocket stove creates, and what the high-temperature chemical tolerance of your materials are. If your goal is longevity, bare CF board and stainless steel screws are sure to disappoint you..

[flyman]

Oh really? What would be a better option ? I hearing the burn chambers can reach 1800 or so, & burn outs. I thought of making a build from fire brick instead. You
already know the net. So much info, some good some bad. I do not want to invest a lot of time & money in something that will burn out in less that a year or two.
There is a guy that started a rocket stove heater company & has very high reviews that has done just as I was thinking by lining his burn chamber & heat riser. That
Is why I was thinking going that route. Of coarse time will tell. He has only been doing it since last year. What would you advise?

Thanks Fly🪰

[masonryrocketstove]

The 18/8 stainless steel that nearly all fasteners are made from will only handle temperatures about half of your rocket stove's peak combustion temps, before the nickel and chrome fall out of alloy solution and the metal blues, then yellows, browns...and finally spalls and rusts just like mild steel..

Ceramic fiber board can work ..if you rigidize and coat it with something to resist the abrasion of wood loading and protect it from alkali ash corrosion. Otherwise it will turn to a powdery dust that wears away very quickly, especially in the primary burn chamber where you load the wood.

Ceramic fiber won't last more than a season or two of heavy use if left bare.

[flyman]

What about sodium silicate? Most likely not long term fix? So that makes the rocket a bad idea for a shop heater I would think. I have also considered a used
oil burning stove. There seems to be many using them. What is your thoughts on that?

Fly🪰

[masonryrocketstove]

I'm guessing that when you picture a "rocketstove" in your mind, you're imagining a bent metal tube object, then lining the inside of that with ceramic fiber.

Change your paradigm, and think of a rocketstove made out of firebrick or castable refractory, not metal.

Those last a whole lot longer than metal tubes, and burn a whole lot cleaner, too.

The firebrick / refractory kind is primarily what you'll find info about how to build and use on this forum. Click around and see what other people are building here.

[flyman]

Well I know what they are, for I have made a few out of square tubing for cooking when camping. But this is my first attempt at a 
heater for my home machine shop. I have watched so many YouTube videos, but as you know not all that info is correct. But I have 
given the fire brick stove some thought. I was thinking welding a cage from angle iron just to incapsulate the outside but also using high temp 
Mordor to seal it. Your thoughts are respected.  

    Fly🪰

[masonryrocketstove]

May 17, 2023 19:08:47 GMT -8 flyman said:

I have made a few out of square tubing for cooking when camping. But this is my first attempt at a heater for my home machine shop.

Right. The rocket stoves we talk about here on the forum aren't the kind made of square tube. The metal just doesn't last, and that style doesn't burn cleanly, either.

But I have given the fire brick stove some thought.

Great! Have a look at the "J-Tube" design of rocketstove written about on the forum. That kind is pretty easy to build, and can be done quite cheaply.

I was thinking welding a cage from angle iron just to incapsulate the outside

While you could build a loose-fitting metal "frame" (or "stand") to hold it up off the floor.. ..encapsulating a firebrick rocketstove in angle iron usually isn't a great idea. If the frame is snug enough to hold the bricks in place, it will often cause them to crack.. because the bricks need enough room for thermal expansion when they're hot, and an encapsulating iron frame will often prevent them from expanding.. so the bricks just break under those opposing forces, instead. 

but also using high temp Mordor to seal it.

You can certainly use high temp mortar, but you can even use regular clay you dig from the ground, mixed with sharp sand to make a DIY clay mortar for between the brick joints.. if you're wanting to do it on the cheap.

The one area I wouldn't advise skimping on is the quality of the firebrick. If you buy good quality firebrick, you can DIY the rest of it for cheap or free, usually.

[flyman]

You bring up some GREAT points. I was wanting to use a steel barrel to incapacitate the heat into my shop. Being it it a work shop I do not have room for a mass heater.
Your thoughts? www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=ipad_bm&sxsrf=APwXEdd1eJ98hzLh272bu-cELzsCrkcDYQ:1684381324912&q=Best+brick+rocket+stove+design&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJvKK0-f3-AhWelWoFHc0NBqoQ1QJ6BAg5EAE&biw=1283&bih=916&dpr=2#imgrc=HZy_8OgIr9rkvM&ip=1

Fly🪰

[flyman]

This site is so vast on this subject it blow my mind. I think you under stand what I,m wanting to do in heating my work shop with a rocket stove. Is there any
Plans for making a RS that is not a mass type heater, & could heat 1800 SF insulted shop. I,m about doing thing right the first time, but as simple as possible.
I worked in a R&D department most of my life before retirement. I do not plan to reinvent the wheel in any way. Making prototypes I learned early on there is
No such thing as new design just adaptation of something from the past. Please! Steer me to plans on that will fit my needs.

[masonryrocketstove]

May 18, 2023 7:33:16 GMT -8 flyman said:

I was wanting to use a steel barrel to incapacitate the heat into my shop. Being it it a work shop I do not have room for a mass heater.

I'm guessing you mean to use the steel barrel to "dissipate" the heat? If so, then yes I think you're on the track with the steel barrel. So long as the steel (heat exchanger) is used *after* the combustion zones, you shouldn't have any problems with metal burnout.

If I were you, I'd consider building a standard J-Tube like for a Rocket Mass Heater, but without the cob bench "mass" after the steel barrel. For extra, rapid heat exchange into the room, you could weld two barrels end-to-end to place over the heat riser, functioning like a rapid heat-exchange "bell". Peter did something similar to this with his own workshop heater (albeit with a batch-box rocket core instead of a J-Tube.) you can see pictures of that build on his website here: batchrocket.eu/en/applications

There's no reason I can see why that stacked-barrel approach wouldn't work just as well with a J-Tube core as its does with the batch-box core Peter built. And the J-Tube will be easier to build for a first attempt.

The added bonus of using regular clay/sand mortar between the firebricks is that you can dismantle it later and re-use the bricks easily.. like if you decide you want to try a different design.

I'd be wary of a lot of the brick rocketstove designs you see online, where the person is building something with common house brick or even cinderblock. That kind of brick won't handle the heat like actual, good-quality, temp-rated firebrick will. (Most of those folks are building something in their backyard simply as a novelty, and never actually put the thing through a full heating season of use. If they did, they'd learn pretty quickly that common brick falls apart under the heat cycling.)