Brickwork Jali

[eseating]

Jali is a term used in India for open brickwork. [The search engines left me with questions.]
I am thinking of using open brickwork at the bottom of the downdraft chute in a Walker tiny stove instead of upright brick supports. I'm asking here in case Matt is getting tired of my many questions, and in case any engineers or bricklayers are looking.
My crude illustration, not to scale with upright lines being mortar:

BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK [solid layers here and above]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK [base layer]

these will be mortared, not dry stacked.

Are there any issues with strength anyone can think of? Maximum opening size?
Is there any negative impact on airflow (too much or too little) with this design?
Is there any reason I shouldn't begin the openwork right below the firebox support in case it seems I need more airflow?
I know, I know. I'm overthinking.
TIA,
Gani

[Forsythe]

Nov 2, 2022 8:33:42 GMT -8 eseating said:

Jali is a term used in India for open brickwork. [The search engines left me with questions.]

I promise you that your post leaves me with even more questions than you have from whatever it is that your search engine results showed you

Help us understand what you’re wanting to modify —how you’re wanting to modify it, and why — what functional purpose is it supposed to serve?

I am thinking of using open brickwork at the bottom of the downdraft chute in a Walker tiny stove instead of upright brick supports.

Let’s back up to here and clarify the 3 things you’re wanting to jumble around. With embedded image posts of each of them, illustrating the features you mean to alter, please.

1 - what does the original downdraft chute you’re referring to look like? (Image embed)
2 - what does a ”jali” look like — specifically what feature are you wanting to emulate (image embed)
3 - what would that augmented feature you’re proposing look like within the modified walker stove (image embed)

My crude illustration, not to scale with upright lines being mortar:

BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK [solid layers here and above]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK BRIK [open layer]
BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK||BRIK [base layer]

these will be mortared, not dry stacked.

I honestly cannot decipher what this text wall is supposed to represent beyond the sparse verbal description that it’s some type of open, not-dry-stacked brickwork. That could take any one of a countless number different forms. Is this supposed to be a vertical wall? A floor? A roof? A honeycombed flue channel?

What purpose is it supposed to serve? A post-combustion heat-exchange checkerwork for harvesting heat? A preheating secondary air intake? A secondary burn chamber? A grate-like fuel bed support? A structural support layer to carry the weight-load of stove features above it?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

A picture with labeled annotations is priceless.

You can include pictures (or drawings) by posting them to an image sharing site and copy/pasting the BBCode into your forum post.
donkey32.proboards.com/post/37857/thread

[eseating]

Hi Forsythe,

Thanks for your reply. Please let me know if I have done the sharing on the pictures correctly.

The downdraft wall is the interior wall on the right in this picture (a copy of a picture of Matt's).
The base of the wall (no picture) is open for airflow, supported by vertical bricks at joins.
Tiny stove

Jali wall pictured here

I am wanting to use a jali structure at the base of the wall to provide support, retain airflow in the bottom of the stove, and reduce the number of brick cuts I need to make. I'm more of an english major than a sketcher [or bricklayer for that matter ] so no sketch.

I hope to create a thread on this stove when I am doing the final build...with pictures and notes for the extremely unskilled. At this point I haven't found any reason to dissuade me from using this technique (lack of strength or lack of adequate air flow). I'll document the jali.

I hope I have clarified more than I have muddied.
Gani

[Forsythe]

Nov 7, 2022 8:18:04 GMT -8 eseating said:

I am wanting to use a jali structure at the base of the wall to provide support, retain airflow in the bottom of the stove, and reduce the number of brick cuts I need to make.

It's a little hard to tell because the only picture that came through is of the jali open brickwork. The link to Matt's picture isn't working...

From the verbal description it sounds like it might work. My area of concern would be ensuring that the flue channel is gas-tight. From what it sounds like, this brick wall would have been the second (outer) half of a "double-skin" to ensure that exhaust gasses don't escape a flue passageway and leak into the room. If that's the case, I would caution against making any part of a double-skinned heater's outer wall into an open brickwork "jali"

[eseating]

Let me try the link again.
Tiny stove
{tested in another browser and it worked this time. Not sure what I managed to do on the previous link}
No open brickwork on the exterior, I promise. I like living.

[Forsythe]

Nov 7, 2022 15:40:21 GMT -8 eseating said:

Let me try the link again.
Tiny stove
{tested in another browser and it worked this time. Not sure what I managed to do on the previous link}
No open brickwork on the exterior, I promise. I like living.

I could be wrong here, but I think that Matt's design on the lower level is meant to channel the gasses around the lower roasting oven underneath the firebox. Just be extra sure that any modifications you make there won't disrupt the intended flue pathway to and around that lower oven. ...And also that the gasses won't be encountering more resistance by an open brickwork right before they're drawn into the bench and/or chimney stack.

If making a lot of brick cuts is your primary concern, I'd highly recommend renting a wet tile and masonry saw. That will make very quick and precise work of all the brick cuts you need. (Rather than trying to do the scoring-and-chiseling method used by our forbearers, which, YES, is an absolute pain in the neck 😅.)

[coastalrocketeer]

I was planning to use this to make a large mass in a small space with heavy bricks inside a bell with a water tank for a hydronic system at the top. One Jali wall after another, and some bricks connecting them at intervals for strength.

I also think if the holes in the Jali are offset from one layer of wall to the next layer, that may increase stratification and reduce it’s turbulent disruption from the localized velocity of the incoming gas stream.

If you are talking under the stove body, a Jali wall should work as long as all of the bricks in the bottom layer sitting on the spaces out Jali, have their ends supported.

In the interior, the same rule would apply to the roof of any cavity you reduce brick usage of, in this way.