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Post by martyn on Aug 23, 2022 7:40:25 GMT -8
I would like to try and build a top loading vortex style stove, the stove would be used for cooking on a hot plate.
I will start the ball rolling with this video …… but please chime in with any ideas…..
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sertus
New Member
Plato is dear to me, but truth is even dearer to me!
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Post by sertus on Aug 23, 2022 8:35:05 GMT -8
Sorry, Martin, for my rushing into your topic!
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fuegos
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not out of the woods yet
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Post by fuegos on Aug 23, 2022 9:01:35 GMT -8
What do you think the advantages would be Martyn ? (haven't had time to watch the vid , off to do some cooking )
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Forsythe
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Instauratur Ruinae
Posts: 208
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Post by Forsythe on Aug 23, 2022 9:03:08 GMT -8
I like that you're thinking outside the conventional box here, martyn . Certainly has my mental cogs turning.... I have a pretty strong hunch that you'd have a difficult time coaxing the fire into the afterburner and top chamber, though, with this current concept's layout. ...A J-tube burns sideways because it produces a really strong draft with its tall heat riser right next to the fueling drop, which immediately establishes system draft in the correct direction — functioning like an internal "chimney" at the front-end of the system (up-stream of a mass bench and the actual chimney which exhausts to the outside.) A Vortex stove kinda works against that principle, in a way, because it relies on back pressure to hold the vortex spinning in the afterburner for as long as it can. ...whereas the J-tube riser rushes the gasses right through itself with a ferocious quickness. It might work if you had some sort of primer fire between the...uh... "Vorjube" (yep, I'm gonna go with "Vorjube" 🤣) and the building's externally-venting chimney — to establish the really strong draft this thing would probably need prior to lighting the Vorjube to begin cooking — otherwise you might end up needing some skewers for shish-kabob grilling over the flames coming out of the fuel-feed, instead of grilling on the cooktop hob. ...what if.... (just spitballing here)... what if you had two smaller fires that could be loaded in an alternating pattern (kinda like a fast-fire kiln) and which both feed into the same "bell" underneath the cooktop? (the idea being that: as one of the fireboxes is just beginning to die-down, you're re-loading the opposite one, such that a constant rate of heat is maintained between the two fires at alternating stages of burn-down and coaling phase? I'll try to dig up some pics of that fast-fire kiln to better explain. |
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Post by martyn on Aug 23, 2022 11:39:41 GMT -8
Ha ha I like Vorjube…. Perhaps the primary air could be introduced at the bottom during start up, but yes a well insulated 3 meter chimney would probably be needed.
I could build a prototype in a few hours using vermiculite, although it would cost me a few hundred £s just to find out it doesn't work at all.
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Post by Vortex on Aug 23, 2022 11:45:13 GMT -8
Hey Martyn, Glad to see you're still experimenting. I attempted to make a little 4" 'J-tex' stove in the garden last summer, it was a bit of a half-hearted build thrown together just to see if it had any potential, but as Forsythe quite astutely noted, without the tall riser of the j-tube it was hard to get it to run, it kept smoking out the top of the feed tube. I never got any farther with it but I'm sure with a proper chimney it can be made to work. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Trev
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Post by Dan (Upstate NY, USA) on Aug 24, 2022 0:27:41 GMT -8
Are you going to include glass so you can cook and see the vortex?
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Post by martyn on Aug 24, 2022 2:19:55 GMT -8
Hey Dan, if I do build it then … absolutely … a whole glass side!
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 25, 2022 11:59:06 GMT -8
Im not familiar with how a vortex operates but is adding wood during the burn a cause of over fueling? A riserless core is quite happy to have wood added throughout the burn & as long as it's not too small it rarely overfuels.
But no it's not a crazy idea & I for one think you should just go ahead & build it.Necessity may be the mother of invention but failure is the midwife.
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Post by Vortex on Aug 25, 2022 12:56:39 GMT -8
Over fueling after refueling isn't a problem specific to vortex stoves, it's just a lot more obvious as the afterburner glass shows up any smoke deposit. From the firebox window alone I wouldn't know it was happening unless I was using a lot of small wood.
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sertus
New Member
Plato is dear to me, but truth is even dearer to me!
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Post by sertus on Aug 26, 2022 11:36:56 GMT -8
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Post by martyn on Aug 26, 2022 13:16:08 GMT -8
Thanks, Stefan, I love your drawings.
I think that, like Matt Walkers designs, the chimney is an important factor and with a direct route many Configurations could be experimented with.
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 28, 2022 3:22:46 GMT -8
"Over fueling after refueling isn't a problem specific to vortex stoves"
No of course not !
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Post by martyn on Aug 29, 2022 0:09:51 GMT -8
In my experience adding fuel to a hot firebox causes massive over fueling, I assume this is because a new fire is lit from the top but adding new fuel on top of hot ash or burning wood, will burn from the bottom and with the surrounding heat very quickly over fuel?
In fact my 6” vortex stove was built with a refractory fire box and was far more prone to overfueling than my new vortex stove that is completely built from insulating material.
Of course there may be many other factors …..
My present J tube is a very good cooking device, I have leant how to control the heat by the amount and type of fuel that I use, but more importantly for me, is to have a consistent heat source for several hours where the temperature can be maintained or even changed.
My new 4” vortex stove seems to offer very similar hot plate temperatures to my 6” J tube but I would love to combine the two best aspects of the individual stoves…. The visual effects of the vortex and the controlled fuel feed of the J tube.
I hope to get a working model soon but it is more about space and time than money…..
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Sept 6, 2022 3:41:28 GMT -8
Ive found with the riserless core that waiting for the embers to die down a bit & the firebox to cool almost eliminates overfueling completely. The trick seems to be to add big bits of wood in a half load leaving plenty of space between the wood & the firebox roof, also keeping the door open for a few minutes. Individual logs can also be added to keep the oven in a desired temperature range.
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