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Post by chozen on Oct 7, 2021 9:58:52 GMT -8
Hello,
I would like to build a cookstove/oven/heater in my kitchen. The proposed location has cement floor and a chimney above that was formerly used for the boiler. I am looking for sources of ceramic wool, ceramic fiber board, and insulating firebrick. I have a reasonable amount of salvaged firebrick. The design I use will probably be dictated by the materials and prices that I can get locally. I like the idea of a DSR with attached bell but need to see if I can make it work here. I am located in France on the border between Tarn and Herault. An hour from Beziers, and just under two hours from Toulouse.
Also, I have seen construction methods using clay slip instead of mortar, which appeals to me as I want to be able to disassemble the stove if it performs poorly over time. Is the slip made with regular clay or fireclay? There are probably clay deposits near me, as there is a brick factory and pottery manufacturer right next to each other.
Any suggestion of suppliers or salvagers, would be appreciated.
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Forsythe
Full Member
Instauratur Ruinae
Posts: 208
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Post by Forsythe on Oct 7, 2021 15:02:21 GMT -8
Hello, I would like to build a cookstove/oven/heater in my kitchen. The proposed location has cement floor and a chimney above that was formerly used for the boiler. I am looking for sources of ceramic wool, ceramic fiber board, and insulating firebrick. I have a reasonable amount of salvaged firebrick. The design I use will probably be dictated by the materials and prices that I can get locally. I like the idea of a DSR with attached bell but need to see if I can make it work here. I am located in France on the border between Tarn and Herault. An hour from Beziers, and just under two hours from Toulouse. Also, I have seen construction methods using clay slip instead of mortar, which appeals to me as I want to be able to disassemble the stove if it performs poorly over time. Is the slip made with regular clay or fireclay? There are probably clay deposits near me, as there is a brick factory and pottery manufacturer right next to each other. Any suggestion of suppliers or salvagers, would be appreciated. Hi Chozen, welcome to the forum. I’m not in France, so hopefully someone else can help out with the salvage firebricks and other materials (maybe reach out to Yasin of www.uzume.fr/ …He’s the creator of the “Batch Block” variant and French translator for Peterberg’s batchrocket.eu/ site. He might know of some local sources in your area.) As for the clay slip mortar, here’s some info from Lars Helbro of www.stenovne.dk“For everything thats not exposed for more than 572 C. (about 1000F) ordinary bricks and claymortar (1 part pure clay + 5 parts of sharp sand) is most appropiate conserning long lasting and easily repaired if nessesary.” [ “sharp sand” is river sand — or sand from near its granitic parent rock — as opposed to beach sand which has been tumbled into smoother, more rounded particles over the distance it has traveled, and by the repeated wash of waves and tides] “Inside [the firebox and flame path] we use the best fireproof and shock resistent bricks we can find at any time. The mortar here, is the same material crushed and mixed with natriumsilica.” [“Natriumsilica” is “sodium silicate,” also known as “waterglass”.] Outside we use ordinary bricks and claymortar (clay, sand and water). [the 1:5 “pure clay:sharp sand” mix] “The clay mortar has the ability, that cementmortor lacks, to stretch and bend and this way absorb the forces that occur during the heating up and cooling down cycles. Furthermore, claymortar can be reused again and again. You would not notice, if the mortar you are using was part of a house centuries ago. For the same reason, you can allways, and very easely, repair any small cracks that might occur. We dont see mutch of them, but it happens, and is no problem at all.” |
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Forsythe
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Instauratur Ruinae
Posts: 208
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Post by Forsythe on Oct 7, 2021 16:51:31 GMT -8
There's also this note from The Book of Masonry Stoves by David Lyle:    ...which is to say: there are a few different mixes of clay and aggregate [sand or grog] used, depending on the quality of the sand and the clay, also varying by region. Lars's 1:5 clay:sand mix would likely work best for clean clay with high plasticity. To wash your local clay of debris like pebbles, roots, etc — and remove any fine (round) sand which might hinder the mix — and to increase its plasticity:• Gather materials: - three 5-gallon buckets - a nylon paint strainer for a 5-gallon bucket ( the kind which has the elastic band to hold the strainer mesh onto the rim of the bucket. They're cheap and very re-usable for this process.) - vinegar ( distilled white is best best, but any will do) - a used, old, fine-weave cotton pillowcase or some other natural cloth with a high thread count - a stout stick or paddle to stir, strong enough to agitate a layer of sand/silt at the bottom of a watery clay mix. •1) Dig the clay and break it up as small / fine as possible •2) fill a bucket (bucket#1) half-full of plain water •3) stir in the broken-up clay until the slurry has the consistency of whole chocolate milk. (not as thick as a milkshake.) •4) let stand for 1 or more hours, (to ensure saturation of clay particles) then stir very thoroughly again. [ this step is called "levigating" the clay] •5) wait 20-30 minutes (perhaps up to 1 hour at most) for the sediment to settle-out of the suspended clay, then: •6) place the paint strainer in/on bucket#2, and very carefully, SLOWLY decant (pour off) the suspended clay/water off of the sediment, leaving behind that unwanted grit and silt in bucket#1, pouring * only the suspended clay* through the strainer into bucket#2. •7) lift and remove the paint strainer from bucket#2, which will remove any floating pieces of roots, grass, leaves, etc. ( which didn't settle in bucket#1) •8) pour 1-2 cups of vinegar into bucket#2. Wash your stir-stick off and stir the vinegar / clay / water suspension. •9) after an hour or so, the clay will have flocculated to a clean layer on the bottom of bucket #2, leaving clear water/vinegar on top. •10) very carefully and SLOWLY decant (pour off) the vinegar / clear water from the top into bucket#3 [ you can now reuse this vinegar-water to flocculate a second washing of the clay in bucket#1, (repeating steps 1 through 7,) or for flocculating the next batch, and you'll only need to add half the vinegar next time] The resulting levigated and flocculated clay is "soured" with the vinegar, and will have better purity and plasticity than in its raw, as-dug state. •11) pour the soured clay into the pillowcase and tie the pillowcase off in a loose knot. Hang it from a tree branch to air-dry until its the consistency you want. ( an alternative to the pillowcase is pouring into an aluminum baking tray and allowing it to partially evaporate in a warm place) |
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Post by fiedia on Oct 8, 2021 6:21:35 GMT -8
Bonjour Chozen,
For firebox and bells, I used pure clay (no fireclay) and water. It is really easy to remove from the bricks if you want to reuse them.
On high temp parts such as firebox and bell inner skin, the joint will be as thin as possible (press as much as possible). Therefore I buy pure clay from a local brick factory : briques de Nagen. One 25kg (6 euros) bag is enough for a 1m3 bell. My refractory bricks (heavy ones) come from Albine near Mazamet. They probably have pure clay bags too.
On lower temp parts (bell second skin), I just dug in my garden and found very nice clay about 1m deep. But if you live in Montagne Noire, you may have a hard time to find good clay in your garden. I mix this clay with fine river sand (half clay, half sand)
For superwhool and light insulating bricks (heat riser, upper box), I get it from ceraplus. look at the map on this site for the closest dealer around your place.
Keep us informed
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amo
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by amo on Oct 9, 2021 9:44:10 GMT -8
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Post by cedric on Dec 10, 2021 15:26:06 GMT -8
Hello! Would anyone have some references in Belgium ? And specifically any place (even in Europe) where to buy a nice new stainless steel oil drum (I'm happy with my reclaimed steel oil drums, but some people want their stove to be all shiny...  Thanks ! |
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Post by martyn on Dec 11, 2021 0:54:49 GMT -8
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Forsythe
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Posts: 208
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Post by Forsythe on Dec 11, 2021 15:41:25 GMT -8
Thought I’d just share this in case you find it useful:
I found a used stainless steel barrel seller in my country, but I live in a fairly remote area several states away from them… the cost of the 50 gallon drum was approximately $235 USD, but the freight shipping they wanted to charge for delivering it to the nearest receiving dock (at a warehouse 50 miles away from me, through the mountain roads) was an additional $380 USD. …And…To have it delivered to my home would have been an additional $540 dollars. 🤯
At least in the US, if you don’t have a distributor near you, within driving distance to pick it up yourself, they’re just not worth the price.
However — I found that there are a number of sellers online who make 170 liter / 180 quart stainless steel stock pots for brewing or commercial kitchens — and you can sometimes find *those* for $225-$300 USD… and they come with free shipping
That size works out to roughly 45 gallons, so it’s just barely under the 50 gallon drum size… which some people cut in half anyway. Wall thicknesses can vary with those stainless steel “inox” pots, though, so just read the description and item shipping weight closely before purchase.
I mean… $225 instead of $775… that was a no-brainer for me. 😁
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