Post by anotherluke on Mar 14, 2021 20:10:23 GMT -8
I am thinking of getting a testo.
What does % eff gr. stand for in Vortex's readings? And %N in Peters? Is this for efficiency also? Any reason to test NOx?
Where in the heater do you take your measurements? Do you make a hole part way up the chimney for your probe? In the "small scale development" thread it looks like Peter did all of his testing with a simple double barrel heater that wasn't attached to a mass. Is this your preferred way for testing a new core?
This used one seems promising. I could return for just the cost of shipping if doesn't work. Any ideas on examining/testing a used one to see if it's in workable condition?
For a new one it looks like it would have to be a Testo 300 LL Commercial/Industrial Combustion Analyzer pt number 0564 3004 95 in order to dilute high CO levels.
Thanks for any help! I'd love to be able to tinker and test various adjustments with some hard data.
I'm not the expert on this but hopefully Peter will correct me if I get something wrong.
The Testo 330 is better because it can be used with the Easyheat software to produce the graphs we post, (I have the Testo 330-2 F, previously had the Testo 330-2 LL. ).
Be aware it's an expensive hobby. You'll also need the Solid Fuel Adapter which is about 400 euro and the software for the graphs is about 120. The filters are about 30 euro for 10. The sensors in the testo have a limited life lifespan and are expensive to replace, the CO. sensor is about 250 euro. The testo needs calibrating every 2 years.
% eff gr. is gross efficiency, some testo models seem to have different abbreviations though. We're all measuring the same 3 things: CO. ppm, %O2 & stack temperature, efficiency is calculated from those.
You have to drill an 8mm hole in the chimney pipe to insert the probe. Measurement should be taken from the chimney pipe before it leaves the room the stove is in, but if you have a draft regulator it has to be before that.
What does % eff gr. stand for in Vortex's readings? And %N in Peters? Is this for efficiency also?
Have a look at that N sign, one of its legs is longer than the other. This "letter" is the efficiency symbol. Gross efficiency is the brother of net efficiency. The first is also known as Lower Heating Value or LHV, it doesn't take the chimney and chemical losses into the equation. Net efficiency is also known as Higher Heating Value or HLV, all losses are into account so the resulting figure is lower, most of the time 10 to 12 %. Calculated from the O² level and temperature of the exhaust gases. It seems that for the EU the calculation formula is different to the one used in the USA.
The hole for the probe is in the same room as the heater is in, most of the time about 150 cm (5') above the floor in the chimney pipe, just for convenience. Using one or more barrels do provide a simple means of lowering the exhaust temperature so the Testo won't die due to overly hot exhaust gases. Building a proper mass is more work, take up more space and isn't as easy to adapt.
The price of my latest CO cell replacement was €500, yearly calibration €250.
@trevor, using the Testo regularly during two years the accuracy could be seriously impaired. Yearly calibration is mandatory for professionally used equipment like this in the EU, as far as I know.
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2021 9:28:20 GMT -8 by peterberg
Yes, I was thinking of someone doing some seasonal hobby testing on a budget not commercial use. I've let mine go 18 months, as you have in the past. The sensor self test still says they're OK. I recently checked it against a friends 330, mine was reading the CO. 15ppm lower.
Have you ever bought a new CO. sensor and fitted it yourself? I was told by the German supplier that they come per-calibrated. The O2 sensor should be easy to check as we know the O2 content of the air.
Post by anotherluke on Mar 19, 2021 8:13:50 GMT -8
Thank you Peter and Trevor,
That was very helpful.
I purchased a testo earlier this week and had it sent directly to a servicing company (Trutechtools). They charge $119 US for calibration which includes return shipping to me. Seems like a reasonable deal. They'll also let me know if it needs any new sensors and can install them for me. It is a used Testo 330-2 LL. I paid the e-bay seller $650 plus taxes (he was asking $875 and I talked him down a bit). So far they seem like a very helpful company.
I'll report back with how it goes in case anyone here in the states is thinking of buying a used one. A new one here (now called 300 LL Industrial/Commerical analyzer with the 8,000 to 30,000 CO ppm sensor) costs $2250+. So even if I have to replace both of the sensors I think I'll wind up saving money with the used one. Not a cheap endeavor but I want to be able to test the cores I'm building as well as some local builds.
Post by anotherluke on Apr 12, 2021 9:41:50 GMT -8
I wanted to give an update and double check about extra parts to order (questions for Peter and Vortex are at the bottom).
I ordered a Testo 330-2LL on Ebay. I wound up paying the seller $750 including shipping (it was listed for $975 but I talked the seller down a bit based on sales history of other items- you can do an advanced search on Ebay for 'sold listings'). I had it shipped directly to TruTech Tools in Ohio. Here is a link to the service: www.trutechtools.com/service-and-repair-calibration.html. It cost $119 USD and includes shipping to me when complete.
TruTech was very helpful, although they took about three weeks to get it calibrated. They finished last Friday and it wound up costing an additional $190 for replacement of
0133 0010 Internal filter for 330/335/342/346 ($10.20) Testo 0554 4100 NoX Filter Top for Sensor 0393 0053 ($159)
I'm not exactly certain what the 0556 4100 filter does.
I should receive the repaired/calibrated TESTO later this week/early next week.
Hopefully it will continue to work out. The new one I linked to comes with a four year warranty, and includes the easy heat software, which is going to cost me an additional $140 or so. So in the end a better comparison is $1200 instead of $2400. For me I think it was worth saving the $1200. But I would fully understand why someone would prefer to purchase a brand new one with a warranty. I think mine includes an NO
I'm planning to order the additional parts below recommended by Vortex. It looks like it is actually cheaper to buy them from Germany and have them shipped here as opposed to buying from the US. Are there any other parts I need besides the easyheat software? Thanks! Also is NOx measurement useful at atll?
anotherluke As you've discovered it's an expensive hobby. The only other thing I can think of that you'll need is a USB Type A to Mini B Cable to connect the Testo to your computer. I look forward to seeing your test results.
Post by anotherluke on Apr 12, 2021 16:45:55 GMT -8
Thank you both for the quick replies! I'm sure I'll have some more questions when everything arrives. Definitely not cheap, but I want to be able to put some hard data behind the stoves I'm building. Hopefully I can use it to do tests on some other nearby stoves. I think both Solomon and Donkey live somewhat close by. I'm in far northern California if anyone wants to meet up some time to do some testing.
Has anyone tried this rental option? I want to test my box stove to get a baseline, and this could be a comparatively economical way to go for some quick testing. (I'm in MD, their website says they are in NJ, so hopefully I'm in their rental range).
@dcish, I think highmark would ship to your area. I am in Corning New York and it hasn't been a problem. If you do decide to try the rental, make sure you know the terms of the deal. I have heard of a group who returned a rental with a bad sensor and got charged for the price of the sensor in addition to the rental price.
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