What do you think of Mr. Ueno's Cyclone Rocket Furnace?

[Jane]

Hello peterberg. What do you think of Mr. Ueno's Cyclone Rocket Furnace?


Mr. Ueno, Japan, whirlwind rocket furnace picture


Mr. Ueno, Japan Cyclone Rocket Furnace Video

なぜ、サイクロンなのか？

ヒートライザー内でできるだけ燃焼経路を長くするためです。そうすることによって滞留時間を稼ぎ、炎を炎で熱くしています。実際には螺旋状に燃え上がっていて、炎と空気がミルフィーユのように重なっています。しかし、ただ回せばいいというものではありません。どうしたいから回すのか、それに必要なものがなければいけません。


なぜ、ヒートライザーはこの形状なのか？

これまでにヒートライザーだけでも百数十本試作し、燃焼テストを繰り返してきました。1トン以上の鋼材を使ったことになります。なぜそんなにも労力がかかるかというと、実際に燃やしてみないとわからないからです。頭の中だけではものづくりは完成しません。そして、それだけの検証を繰り返してわかったことは、規格鋼材の形状の組合せではどうしても辿り着けない領域があるということでした。


なぜ、断熱材は使わないのか？

必要なくなったからです。ロケットストーブに断熱材は要らないと言ってるわけではありません。私達が作り出したこのサイクロンヒートライザーには必要ではなくなったということです。新型サイクロンヒートライザーには炎の外側にも空気の層を作りました。その空気の層は鋼材と炎の間を旋回しています。旋回する空気層の壁の中を螺旋状に燃焼しています。ヒートライザーの外側は燃焼用空気をプレヒートするチャンバーになっています。そうすることによって、燃焼と耐久性を高レベルで両立させています。

[gadget]

Very interesting design with the secondary air. You can see the preheating and holes in the cyclone tube. Just need to figure out how to make it with insulative refractory for a cleaner burn.

[satamax]

He has some stuff which has blue flames on youtube. Very interesting.

But the second video has plain yellow flames. I don't know if it's any good.

Mind you, my flames are yellow too.

All metal, that might be bad for longevity. Mind you, the heat riser is somewhat cooled by the secondary air. Not that good for burning temps tho.


The bottom line, we haven't seen any testo or other device testing of his stuff.

[peterberg]

Hi Jane, welcome to the boards.

Here's a probably rough translation of the Japanese text:

---------------------------------------------
Why is it a cyclone?

This is to make the combustion path as long as possible in the heat riser. By doing so, the residence time is earned and the flame is heated by the flame. Actually it is burning in a spiral, and the flame and air overlap like a millefeuille. However, it's not just about turning. There must be what you need to do what you want to turn.

Why is the heat riser in this shape?

So far, hundreds of dozens of heat risers have been prototyped and repeated combustion tests. It means that we used steel material of 1 ton or more. The reason why it takes so much labor is because you don't know unless you actually burn it. Manufacturing is not completed just in your head. And it was found that there was an area that could not be reached by the combination of standard steel shapes.

Why not use insulation?

It is no longer necessary. I'm not saying that a rocket stove doesn't need insulation. The cyclone heat riser we created is no longer necessary. The new cyclone heat riser also has an air layer outside the flame. The air layer swirls between the steel and the flame. It is burning in a spiral in the wall of the swirling air layer. The outside of the heat riser is a chamber that preheats the combustion air. By doing so, both combustion and durability are achieved at a high level.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen earlier videos of this burner quite some time ago. I think it might be another approach to clean burning. There's no insulation in there, but on the other hand the hollow space between inside and outside tube is employed to heat the secondary air.

In the rocket mass heater world, it's unusual to inject secondary air in the riser itself. Most, if not all, of the time it won't work like that. But this looks like another approach in the sense some aspects of a top down burning wood gasifier are married with the feed/tunnel/riser layout of a J-tube rocket heater plus a cyclone.

The whole of the setup makes me curious about what a Testo gas analizer would make of this. Seeing no smoke doesn't prove the burn is clean, in rare circumstances actually the opposite.

The inside of the riser seems to be over complicated, it would be interesting to see what could be left out while keeping the presumably clean burning in play.

[peterberg]

After I answered the topic starter's question, something kept nagging at the back of my mind. It took me half an hour to find out what the effect of this so-called cyclone rocket furnace looked like.

Inside the riser is what is called a "fire tornado", caused by the tangential air injection at the base of it. The definitely non-smooth surface of the riser generates very small side-vortexes so mixing of air and combustibles is excellent.

Here's a video that's explaining the effect quite nicely.

[gadget]

awesome video!

[peterberg]

A similar but bigger setup is in the Fire Science Lab of Missoula. No moving parts, the air inlets are in the base which consist of a flat drum. This is cut through the middle vertically and the halfs are shifted in the same way one would do to create a Savonius rotor.

What I mean is right at the beginning of this video:

[Jane]

Sept 22, 2019 0:52:54 GMT -8 peterberg said:

Hi Jane, welcome to the boards.

Here's a probably rough translation of the Japanese text:

---------------------------------------------
Why is it a cyclone?

This is to make the combustion path as long as possible in the heat riser. By doing so, the residence time is earned and the flame is heated by the flame. Actually it is burning in a spiral, and the flame and air overlap like a millefeuille. However, it's not just about turning. There must be what you need to do what you want to turn.

Why is the heat riser in this shape?

So far, hundreds of dozens of heat risers have been prototyped and repeated combustion tests. It means that we used steel material of 1 ton or more. The reason why it takes so much labor is because you don't know unless you actually burn it. Manufacturing is not completed just in your head. And it was found that there was an area that could not be reached by the combination of standard steel shapes.

Why not use insulation?

It is no longer necessary. I'm not saying that a rocket stove doesn't need insulation. The cyclone heat riser we created is no longer necessary. The new cyclone heat riser also has an air layer outside the flame. The air layer swirls between the steel and the flame. It is burning in a spiral in the wall of the swirling air layer. The outside of the heat riser is a chamber that preheats the combustion air. By doing so, both combustion and durability are achieved at a high level.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen earlier videos of this burner quite some time ago. I think it might be another approach to clean burning. There's no insulation in there, but on the other hand the hollow space between inside and outside tube is employed to heat the secondary air.

In the rocket mass heater world, it's unusual to inject secondary air in the riser itself. Most, if not all, of the time it won't work like that. But this looks like another approach in the sense some aspects of a top down burning wood gasifier are married with the feed/tunnel/riser layout of a J-tube rocket heater plus a cyclone.

The whole of the setup makes me curious about what a Testo gas analizer would make of this. Seeing no smoke doesn't prove the burn is clean, in rare circumstances actually the opposite.

The inside of the riser seems to be over complicated, it would be interesting to see what could be left out while keeping the presumably clean burning in play.

Hello peterberg, thank you for your professional response. I don't know about the thermal circulation. In 2018, I tried to make a Mr. Ueno vortex particle rocket furnace. I found it not very friendly to wood. Special thanks to you for sharing the core technology of the Double Shoebox Rocket mark II. I think I will make it according to your plan in the near future. At the same time, I want to say that I might consider the design of the riser vortex. Oh, I don't know if it can be successful or how it burns. It is just an idea.

[Jane]

[Jane]

[Jane]