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Post by peterberg on Aug 17, 2019 23:52:54 GMT -8
Just to clarify: my post above was in support of Peter's explanation. I was aware of that Karl, thank you. |
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Post by peterberg on Aug 18, 2019 0:00:32 GMT -8
At the risk of adding further confusion.... I interpreted Peter's statement (" You know, the double shoebox sports an exit which is a little bit larger than the port.") to mean that the exit is ONLY a little bit larger than the port. And thus a second restriction. The exit is slightly smaller than the defining system CSA throughout, which includes the chimney, true? I hope I am correct in my understanding of this. No this isn't correct, sorry to say. The riser port is 72% of system csa, the end port just 5% wider. |
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Post by peterberg on Aug 18, 2019 0:24:30 GMT -8
OK, drawing of the closed DSR2 system is ready. It is supplied showing the slightly amended core itself, the complete door frame and side air layout, the floor channel and a separate vertical tube to show what all the cutouts are like. The air inlet is done the same way as Christophe Glaziou of Uzumé made it, a separate frame shows the inlet in open situation. It looks a bit odd but I found out fully open or fully closed and nothing in between is easy, no opportunity to fiddle with inlets means peace of mind. And last but not least: an alternative way to assemble the door frame, eliminating eight 45 degree cuts in one go. The file is in SketchUp 8 format and can be found here. |
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Post by Orange on Aug 18, 2019 3:12:52 GMT -8
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Post by Karl L on Aug 18, 2019 3:26:31 GMT -8
Here's a DSR II open system Calculator. I've left the stumbling block dimensions fixed at 50x40mm, like in the drawing.
Thanks, Orange, but I am getting '403 Forbidden' error on that link... |
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yasin
New Member
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Post by yasin on Aug 18, 2019 8:07:38 GMT -8
Hello peterberg thanks for the .skp ! Christophe doesn't show up here too much, but I'll tell him and I'm sure he'll be honoured ! Those pictures only show the very first versions of his work.
I hadn't read the entire thread until now and I'm at awe with the development of the DSR2. That is a very impressive work full of insight, bravo ! I hope I'll find a simple way to implement it on a sidewinder.
Funny how this second port looks as if you had taken off the air inlet from the door to put it after the burner !
Thanks Orange too for the spreadsheet.
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Post by josephcrawley on Aug 18, 2019 9:57:22 GMT -8
Here's a DSR II open system Calculator. I've left the stumbling block dimensions fixed at 50x40mm, like in the drawing.
Could you add closed system to this calculator? Please and thank you |
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Post by whazzatt on Aug 19, 2019 0:18:57 GMT -8
Here's a DSR II open system Calculator.
OMG that zippyshare link is horrible - pop up after pop up, click here for download in between alerts for zippyshare wanting access and location and notifications... I couldn't bring myself to click download! Is there not another way? |
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graham
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by graham on Aug 19, 2019 0:37:15 GMT -8
I had the same issue so gave up.
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Post by Orange on Aug 19, 2019 11:54:08 GMT -8
I've changed formula so the stumbing block is scalable, that makes more sense. Links are renewed. Adblock is always advisable  Protip: you can diagonally scale Peters .skp file in Sketchup, dimensions seem to match  josephcrawley sorry, closed system is too complicated for me now. |
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Post by peterberg on Aug 20, 2019 0:12:46 GMT -8
Protip: you can diagonally scale Peters .skp file in Sketchup, dimensions seem to match. Yes, that's correct. In fact, I scaled the original drawing of my 125 mm system up this way to 150 mm. It's a trick to do that properly, it could help to go into edit mode of the object to be scaled and use the dimension tool to show the diameter of the riser. Using the scale tool then, the dimension will be scaled up at the same time until the desired size is achieved. Not good for a brick core, though. It would be interesting to have a film made in SketchUp showing this process, seeing it happen is quite revealing. |
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Post by Karl L on Aug 20, 2019 6:35:37 GMT -8
Protip: you can diagonally scale Peters .skp file in Sketchup, dimensions seem to match. Yes, that's correct. In fact, I scaled the original drawing of my 125 mm system up this way to 150 mm. It's a trick to do that properly, it could help to go into edit mode of the object to be scaled and use the dimension tool to show the diameter of the riser. Using the scale tool then, the dimension will be scaled up at the same time until the desired size is achieved. Not good for a brick core, though. It would be interesting to have a film made in SketchUp showing this process, seeing it happen is quite revealing. I scaled the 150mm version back down to 125mm using the Scale tool and numeric entry: First calculate the desired scale: 125/150 = 0.8333. Then select the whole core. Then hit 'S' for scale and start dragging one of the corners: the scale varies with the mouse movement. At this point you can enter the scale you want *numerically*, in this case type the digits: "0.8333". Then hit Enter and it applies that exact scale. |
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Post by independentenergy on Aug 21, 2019 2:30:33 GMT -8
thanks Orange for in spreadsheet
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Post by josephcrawley on Aug 22, 2019 11:34:12 GMT -8
Could someone check my math on this?
Total Air 41.5% of CSA
Primary air into tubing door frame 20% of CSA
Primary air into firebox through slots in frame 36% of CSA
Secondary floor channel 10% of CSA
Secondary at riser 5% of CSA
The Firebox follows standard batch box dimensions including the port.
Top box is has height and width equal to firebox width. Top box exit is width of top box and its area is 6% greater than port.
These percentages were taken from Peters closed system sketchup drawing.
Thanks very much to Peter and everyone else who contributed to this new design.
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Post by peterberg on Aug 22, 2019 12:22:28 GMT -8
The percentages are correct, give or take a couple of percentage points. I use millimeters, there could be some discrepancies there although not major.
Forgot to mention: the (horizontal) duct between firebox and topbox is acting as a balancing pipe, it worked not as well without it.
I need to check whether the port is actually taller and narrower, as you say it is. This isn't correct, it should be the same as standard batchbox dimensions. Mark however, height of port is measured from the top of the floor channel's feed instead of from the actual floor. I'll check the port dimensions in the drawing and correct when necessary.
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