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Post by skywalker on Jan 22, 2019 12:24:14 GMT -8
Hello there, First of all thanks for sharing all your experiences. I've just discovered this forum and really love the mindset and respect of it towards all the members. All together you created a wonderful source of information and a true rocketstove library. I've been delving into all the information for days now and have some questions about a design I would like to build. It's a Batch Rocketstove with a 20 or 25 cm system. I learned about the bell seatings from Peter mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac15f.htm> and through that design I started wondering about a bell wall. I couldn't find any post about this, but sure there is - so please your advise. The idea is to create a warm wall of 2,5 meter high and 5 meters long, although sizes could vary if this gives better results. Normally I would build this with several channels going from left to right and climbing up in that way to a chimney opening at the far top. But now I just learned that I can make the inlet of the bell just a bit higher than the chimney opening. Will this work? I think it becomes a double bell system this way. Are there any designs like this? Or advise how to approach? Thanks! Skywalker (The Netherlands)
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Post by satamax on Jan 22, 2019 12:29:21 GMT -8
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Post by josephcrawley on Jan 22, 2019 17:21:21 GMT -8
It certainly could be done. You will want to match the system size to the surface area of the wall to maintain adequate flue temperatures. This link will help you figure out how big a bell you can attach to a firebox of a given size. donkey32.proboards.com/thread/2414/understand-calculate-isaYou can push this amount by a good bit if you add a bypass to allow the initial gasses to head straight to the chimney. I wouldn't push the ISA greater than 50%.
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Post by skywalker on Jan 23, 2019 5:35:04 GMT -8
Thanks for the link, great information and experiment. So to verify my line of thinking: I will make a double bell system with one bell over the firebox and another as a wall. The system comes with a bypass for easy startup and keeping in mind the ISA. There is former door opening in the wall where the bell wall will be build against. By adding extra mass into the bell at the area of the door I can create a hotter spot over there, right? Keeping in mind the ISA Theres a bathroom on the other side of the wall and trough the former door opening I am hoping to radiate some heat over there.
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Post by josephcrawley on Jan 23, 2019 7:18:18 GMT -8
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Post by skywalker on Jan 23, 2019 8:49:57 GMT -8
Good to know! Makes me wondering about designing the whole thing as a single bell. I'm planning on using the existing wall as one side of the bell wall. So I wil just put one single layer of clay/adobe bricks in front of the existing wall and top that of with a ceiling, thus creating one large bell.
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Post by peterberg on Jan 23, 2019 13:54:36 GMT -8
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Post by skywalker on Jan 23, 2019 14:33:09 GMT -8
Hi Peter, yes i've read most of it I guess. The thing is I am used to build batch rockets with channels (and s-portal) but I am totally hooked by the bell concept and dead end benches. So I have to start thinking in a different way and I am very happy with all the feedback that I get through this forum.
Btw: Regarding the s-portal - I will stop using it (I am not a commercial builder) in favor of the floor channel. I found out about the s-portal conflicting with the creative commons license you put over the whole RBB system. I was already wondering why it's not being mentioned that much on the forum..
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Post by michel on Jan 24, 2019 6:28:30 GMT -8
I'm planning on using the existing wall as one side of the bell wall. So I wil just put one single layer of clay/adobe bricks in front of the existing wall and top that of with a ceiling, thus creating one large bell. I would be careful with integrating an existing wall into the bell, als it will expand a bit when heated.
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Post by skywalker on Jan 24, 2019 12:38:26 GMT -8
I'm planning on using the existing wall as one side of the bell wall. So I wil just put one single layer of clay/adobe bricks in front of the existing wall and top that of with a ceiling, thus creating one large bell. I would be careful with integrating an existing wall into the bell, als it will expand a bit when heated. Thanks for the advice. It's quite a massive wall (+30 cm / 12 inches), you think this wil give any problems? I could insulate the top half of the wall with some superwool.
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Bell wall?
Jan 24, 2019 17:49:46 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by wiscojames on Jan 24, 2019 17:49:46 GMT -8
I'd think the concern will be the joint between the wall and the rest of the stove, as they'll be expanding at different rates.
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Bell wall?
Jan 24, 2019 23:20:30 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by satamax on Jan 24, 2019 23:20:30 GMT -8
By the way, on the wokkshop Heather, i have a bell wall. The back of both my belles is a wall. The solution to bad joints, make the inner bell skin with métal. Welded of course.
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Post by michel on Jan 25, 2019 6:44:39 GMT -8
I would be careful with integrating an existing wall into the bell, als it will expand a bit when heated. Thanks for the advice. It's quite a massive wall (+30 cm / 12 inches), you think this wil give any problems? I could insulate the top half of the wall with some superwool. A thicker wall can take up a lot of heat and probably will expand less, but i don't dare to guess if its safe. Maybe its possible to calculate the tolerances etc?
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Post by josephcrawley on Jan 25, 2019 16:43:40 GMT -8
To mate the stove to the wall use some ceramic fiber gasket and lay every other corner brick against the wall parallel to avoid a running joint. If that seems sketchy just brick the wall side up also.
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Post by travis on Jan 26, 2019 7:14:49 GMT -8
Well here where i live in mongolia almost every house has a heating wall made almost just how you described or very similar. They are made with 2 and sometimes 3 chamebers inside. The house i moved into had one in it from maybe 15 to 20 years ago. This spring I built a stove and just used the old wall as a bell. Its been very nice so far. Learning lots! I say go for it!
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