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Post by sksshel on Jul 6, 2018 7:04:29 GMT -8
This is an insulating mix so I guess it’s not very hard? Have you any experience of using it to make a dense concrete type material? Do you think it would work? Say for a weatherproof coating for a pizza oven dome? It is fairly hard at this point, but it can be easily sawn. Also, it is currently susceptible to abrasions. It's my understanding, that it will get harder once it has been fired to elevated temperatures. The curing temperatures so far have been under 150 oF. The one piece that I used for the "Temperature Test" remains susceptible to abrasions. However, that test was only for a few minutes. I suspect that elevated temperatures for a longer period are required for final curing. It did very well during and after the "soak test". I understand that will also improve once fully cured by elevated temperatures. I hope to have results to share after the initial firing soon. So, I guess the short answer is "I don't know, yet". |
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Post by sksshel on Jul 6, 2018 14:28:37 GMT -8
This is an insulating mix so I guess it’s not very hard? Have you any experience of using it to make a dense concrete type material? Do you think it would work? Say for a weatherproof coating for a pizza oven dome? The one piece that I used for the "Temperature Test" remains susceptible to abrasions. However, that test was only for a few minutes. I suspect that elevated temperatures for a longer period are required for final curing. CORRECTION: I tested the wrong "fired" piece. When I tested the piece that was actually used for the "Temperature Test" is was significantly less scratch resistant. |
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Post by sksshel on Jul 8, 2018 3:25:03 GMT -8
CORRECTION: I tested the wrong "fired" piece. When I tested the piece that was actually used for the "Temperature Test" is was significantly less scratch resistant. CORRECTION of my correction: I meant to say it was HARDER and MORE scratch resistant. I said it backward. |
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Post by firewatcher on Jul 8, 2018 7:14:13 GMT -8
CORRECTION of my correction: I meant to say it was HARDER and MORE scratch resistant. I said it backward. Whew...I was wondering about that...it would have been a real problem if after the heat test it basically "degraded". |
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Post by brianbrian on Sept 20, 2018 2:11:20 GMT -8
What about using it to stiffen or coat ceramic fibre blanket or ceramic fibre board?
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Post by sksshel on Sept 20, 2018 9:14:04 GMT -8
What about using it to stiffen or coat ceramic fibre blanket or ceramic fibre board? The blanket could be soaked in the GP and allowed to set. You probably would not need to use the rockwool in the formula in that case. I'm not sure if you would have end product shrinkage. You would need to test the results to answer some of these questions. I'm not sure how GP would help the board. Both options are significantly more expensive than using this GP recipe by itself. |
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Post by firewatcher on Nov 1, 2018 18:01:50 GMT -8
After further discussion via PM with Karl, I have decided to explore a better geopolymer recipe and procedure. My requirements for the Geopolymer are: (1) well documented (2) simple (3) cheap (4) made from widely available components (5) consistent components (portland cement is pretty consistent, etc) (6) Tested - able to withstand the tests of time in an RMH/BBR/DSR/etc If any changes are suggested and accepted to this recipe, I will update this post with the change and date of the change. Here's the recipe for Kansas City #1 - 6.1g KOH - I bought mine here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018) - 14.5g Monopotassium phosphate - I bought mine here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018) - Add enough near boiling water to cause reaction before adding in the remainder of components, add water slowly, the reaction creates further heat. I added 30ml (1 ounce). The reaction completed within a minute. (updated water quantities and timing 3/1/2018) - add in remaining components
- 100g Kaolin (38% alumina) I bought mine here
- 14.5g Portland Cement - you can buy it here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018)
- 10g Rockwool fibers - you can buy it here Add in the Rockwool and water both a little at a time, stirring it in as you go. (updated procedure, cut rock wool in half, 3/1/2018)
- add just enough water to make a paste. I added 4 ounces (118ml). (added 3/1/2018) (updated 4/12/2018)
- Let the end product cure until hard. 27°C/80°F only slightly above ambient temperatures (20-25°C). (approximately 2 weeks)
Uncured Production Volume from this recipe: (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018)
- it results in 10.8 cubic inches of product, .18 liters
- it requires 5.6 times the formula to produce a liter of product
- 160 times the formula to make a cubic foot
The product does not pour but does somewhat settle when vibrated. (added 3/1/2018)
The product shrunk by a little under 10% after 10 days in the curing box. (added 3/11/2018)
Once the initial curing is complete, the final product should be water stable
. It should keep its shape and sharp edges after being soaked in water for 24 hours. Ceramic-like properties including full water resistance are obtained after firing at elevated temperatures. This should be done gradually at first. (added 3/4/2018)
- 1 cu ft of the product costs around $40. (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018)
- 2.5 cu ft of the product is needed to make the batch box portion. The components cost a little under $100. (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018, updated 4/4/2018)
- 1 cu ft is needed to make the shoe box portion at a cost of about $40. (added 4/4/2018)
Sksshel, Can you share the name of the product you used for the monopotassium phosphate? The link to the online store no longer works and when searching for MKP on the site, it returns no results. 🙁 |
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Post by smartliketruck on Nov 1, 2018 20:45:52 GMT -8
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Post by sksshel on Nov 2, 2018 5:47:33 GMT -8
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Post by firewatcher on Nov 2, 2018 6:27:27 GMT -8
Thanks for the info and the update gentlemen!
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Post by coastalrocketeer on Nov 4, 2018 15:23:22 GMT -8
To possibly find MKP cheaper, look for agrucultural nutrient suppliers... I had no luck finding MKP in any retail garden or farm supply centers here in Oregon... A company that does custom nutrient mixes and application for farmers was the only place that had it. He said he would give me the remainder of the 50lb bag he had at home for my experimentation purposes as he normally deals in the stuff by the ton. Generous of him, but I habe to call ahead by a few days, when I know I will be in his area, about 2-1/2 hours away from me, so habe not gotten to take advantage of that yet.
If anyone finds local sources for MKP at reasonable price for a 50lb bag in their area please post it here, as shipping seems to about double the price per 50lb bag at MBFerts link above.
Looking forward to your longer update and tour video of your stove when you are able Steve!
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Post by firewatcher on Dec 20, 2018 10:44:45 GMT -8
After further discussion via PM with Karl, I have decided to explore a better geopolymer recipe and procedure. My requirements for the Geopolymer are: (1) well documented (2) simple (3) cheap (4) made from widely available components (5) consistent components (portland cement is pretty consistent, etc) (6) Tested - able to withstand the tests of time in an RMH/BBR/DSR/etc If any changes are suggested and accepted to this recipe, I will update this post with the change and date of the change. Here's the recipe for Kansas City #1 - 6.1g KOH - I bought mine here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018) - 14.5g Monopotassium phosphate - I bought mine here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018) - Add enough near boiling water to cause reaction before adding in the remainder of components, add water slowly, the reaction creates further heat. I added 30ml (1 ounce). The reaction completed within a minute. (updated water quantities and timing 3/1/2018) - add in remaining components
- 100g Kaolin (38% alumina) I bought mine here
- 14.5g Portland Cement - you can buy it here (updated 3/1/2018, 3/12/2018)
- 10g Rockwool fibers - you can buy it here Add in the Rockwool and water both a little at a time, stirring it in as you go. (updated procedure, cut rock wool in half, 3/1/2018)
- add just enough water to make a paste. I added 4 ounces (118ml). (added 3/1/2018) (updated 4/12/2018)
- Let the end product cure until hard. 27°C/80°F only slightly above ambient temperatures (20-25°C). (approximately 2 weeks)
Uncured Production Volume from this recipe: (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018)
- it results in 10.8 cubic inches of product, .18 liters
- it requires 5.6 times the formula to produce a liter of product
- 160 times the formula to make a cubic foot
The product does not pour but does somewhat settle when vibrated. (added 3/1/2018)
The product shrunk by a little under 10% after 10 days in the curing box. (added 3/11/2018)
Once the initial curing is complete, the final product should be water stable
. It should keep its shape and sharp edges after being soaked in water for 24 hours. Ceramic-like properties including full water resistance are obtained after firing at elevated temperatures. This should be done gradually at first. (added 3/4/2018)
- 1 cu ft of the product costs around $40. (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018)
- 2.5 cu ft of the product is needed to make the batch box portion. The components cost a little under $100. (added 3/1/2018, updated 3/4/2018, updated 4/4/2018)
- 1 cu ft is needed to make the shoe box portion at a cost of about $40. (added 4/4/2018)
Does anyone know if substituting NaOH for the KOH in this recipe would work or if it "ruins the chemistry"? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 8:47:27 GMT -8
Does anyone know if substituting NaOH for the KOH in this recipe would work or if it "ruins the chemistry"?
NaOH will work as well. The molar mass of KOH is 1.4 times higher therefore the number given vor KHO can be divided by 1.4 for using NaOH instead.
The original recipe uses soda ash.
I had created it due to complaints about the extremely dangerous chemicals usually used for geopolymers.
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Post by sksshel on Feb 5, 2019 13:45:36 GMT -8
What would be the effect if Portland Cement was eliminated from the recipe?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 6:02:20 GMT -8
What would be the effect if Portland Cement was eliminated from the recipe? Curing would become very slow at ambient temperatures. A sufficient result may require curing at elevated temperatures.
To keep the same amount of chemicals it would require more phosphate and lye.
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