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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:06:07 GMT -8
Frankly I don't get the obsessive hype with ceramic fiber boards on this forum.
There are far better materials, which are also usually much cheaper.
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Post by wiscojames on Dec 20, 2017 9:14:25 GMT -8
What are they? Do I have to make them myself? How are they far better?
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Post by wiscojames on Dec 20, 2017 9:16:23 GMT -8
Photographic evidence of a successful project?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:36:38 GMT -8
What are they? Do I have to make them myself? How are they far better? Geopolymers are the most versatile materials for refractories. They can be everything you may ever want, from dense to containing more than 50% air. They can be reinforced with fibers of any kind and they can be applied in layers with different properties from dense and extremely hard to containing more than 50% air. You will have to make them yourself. |
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Post by wiscojames on Dec 20, 2017 9:41:13 GMT -8
Sounds like a difficult undertaking for your average tinkerer. Or me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:44:35 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 9:47:21 GMT -8
Sounds like a difficult undertaking for your average tinkerer. Or me. On the contrary, it is extremely easy. To make a binder one has to deal carefully with extremely aggresiive lye. To form the final mixture with your hands you will need disposable gloves, but aside of this it is like playing with mud. |
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Post by wiscojames on Dec 20, 2017 11:03:41 GMT -8
Playing with mud? I can do that. I'm nearly sold! Zeolite + lye + clay?
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Post by wiscojames on Dec 20, 2017 11:04:31 GMT -8
How does one make it insulative, with 50% air?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 11:08:13 GMT -8
Playing with mud? I can do that. I'm nearly sold! Zeolite + lye + clay? Yes. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 11:23:46 GMT -8
How does one make it insulative, with 50% air? If reinforced with short fibers to prevent drying cracks its possible to use just more water in the mixture which after drying leaves lots of very small air filled pores. Another way is to make a pseudo foam by mixing in hollow micro balls made of borosilicate glass or plastic. Real foams are more complicated. Allied Foam Tech Corporation claims geopolymer foams with only 23Kg per cubic meter. alliedfoamtech.com/Geopolymerfoam.htm |
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Post by briank on Dec 20, 2017 17:55:24 GMT -8
Frankly I don't get the obsessive hype with ceramic fiber boards on this forum. There are far better materials, which are also usually much cheaper. Most people have neither the time, resource materials nor the inclination to experiment with geopolymers. They’ve either never heard of them, or if they have, never seen an easily reproduced proven recipe with ratios and techniques and where to obtain the ingredients to try it. They need to see proof it works in the real world for long durations of time before adopting geopolymers. Ceramic fiber board insulation is a proven commodity with decades of widespread reliable utilization in many various industries under its belt. It sounds like geopolymers have immense potential but one cannot expect people to build 2200•F fires in their living rooms with them until there’s a lot more proof behind the claims. That proof very well might already exist in various industries, but that information is not as generally prevalent in the rocket heater community as the routine use of firebricks and ceramic fiber board in these applications. Plus these latter proven refractory materials are much more likely to be accepted by those who write building codes and homeowners insurance policies. As sad as it may seem to a back to the basics and fiercely independent community, if you want to see real growth in the rocket heater movement, it’s only going to happen with well documented standardized easily available commercial materials. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 8:24:21 GMT -8
briank with the exception of public awareness all that requirements are met. Geopolymers are proven refractory materials. The LTGS technology is super simple and the patent is in the public domain since many years. Everything required for it is easily available as commercial materials, but clay may also be available for free on your own ground.
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Post by esbjornaneer on Dec 21, 2017 9:00:34 GMT -8
Thank you for promoting this subject Karl, even though it being off topic for this thread. I have to read more of your threads on the subject to quite understand it and how to make it. If there is a thread explaining how to make it from scratch and where to source materials for it please let me know, or if you would like to make one it would be great.
The reason these boards seem so great is that I can only source heavy fire bricks of one size locally, not even high temp insulation (other than leca) can be found here. And I can get a DSR core from just one sheet of board. With the board I will be able to span a wider cavity (bigger fire box) than with the local bricks.
Thank you again for asking the question.
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Post by briank on Dec 21, 2017 11:23:01 GMT -8
briank with the exception of public awareness all that requirements are met. Geopolymers are proven refractory materials. The LTGS technology is super simple and the patent is in the public domain since many years. Everything required for it is easily available as commercial materials, but clay may also be available for free on your own ground. Great!! Please post a link to a simple and easily reproduced proven recipe with ratios and techniques and where to obtain the ingredients to try it to build a 6” or 8” batch box rocket. Of course it will need to be able to safely span the top of the firebox and form horizontal and vertical risers, etc. |
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