marks
New Member
Posts: 20 
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Post by marks on Nov 19, 2017 10:25:18 GMT -8
hello rocket science artist out there, it has been a great year of experimenting with fire for me and my new home. with the rocket mass J tube, bench, cob, concrete, bell, BBox and other forms of reasons to build a fire. and now finally i like to share with you my experience and photos. photos.app.goo.gl/hIsKwD9OT2fF0rF53i live in a huge house, alone with my daughter. it;s a old house 130 years old, i installed a 150mm 6m long exhaust pipe. straight to the roof without bends. the room we live in is a 30m2 room, i say not well insulated (yet) if it is stormy outside, so you will notice on the inside of the house. when you open the doors, they suck right back into their sockets with a bang:) yet we live by the fantastic, infra red stone warmth of the rocketmass heater bench. it is a big success! normally we use 6 loads of trailer wood. (pine scrap wood) with my old stove. this year i used only 3! it's amazing. the final bench is 4.0 version. (first tiles concrete, then pipe with poured concrete, then part cob hard stone, and now soapstone bell) its is a combination of a few technics: a front end horizontal bell (soapstone) with a warm air extraction siphon installed. and a pipe rear end with poured concrete and stone rubble. |
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Post by satamax on Nov 19, 2017 11:14:55 GMT -8
Hi Marks.
Sorry, but your link ain't working.
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Post by ericaus on Nov 19, 2017 11:33:52 GMT -8
Seems to be working OK now Max.
Great pictures Marks. Well done.
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Post by Dan (Upstate NY, USA) on Nov 19, 2017 11:42:00 GMT -8
Lots of learning, the journey is more fun than the destination...! Links work for me thanks for sharing...
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Post by Vortex on Nov 19, 2017 13:06:53 GMT -8
Wow! Looks like you had fun. What made you settle on a J-tube?
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marks
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by marks on Nov 19, 2017 13:57:15 GMT -8
yeah, it was an adventure. my conclusion to stay with the J-tube (for now) is also a compromise. like all the fire boxes i have tried. but the j-tube feeds on long small sticks. and that's exactly what my (free) wood supplier has enough to offer. so i don't need to saw. i just stick them in. even if they are 2meters long. if i had normal big chunks of wood i definitely would make a BBox. also, i am fond of the mass bank(warm butt). and i think a BBox is a bit to fast for good heat transfer in such a short time. (the big bell combination with bank was not a success in my setup.) and last but not least, i like the fact that you don't need to go on your knees to feed the fire.  i measured the heat in the beginning of the fire tunnel and it gets easy 1200celcius. you can see in the last pictures that the fire insulating bricks are melting! they should withstand 1750celcius! so i like the idea that you can get this heat from a small fire for a longer time with the same or less wood then a BBox. you just have to be sure that you don't let to much (cold unburn) airflow through your system by neglecting the burn. for the other room, maybe i will make a BBox with a internal wall as bell. |
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Post by woodrascal on Nov 20, 2017 2:18:53 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing your building project Marks. Great photos and an interesting build.
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Post by rakettimuurari on Nov 21, 2017 1:30:41 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing!
Seems you really invested yourself in to it relentlessly. Great job and classy finish - congrats! I bet you also grabbed some good amount of practical insights on the way!
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Post by drooster on Nov 21, 2017 12:02:27 GMT -8
yeah, it was an adventure. my conclusion to stay with the J-tube (for now) is also a compromise. like all the fire boxes i have tried. but the j-tube feeds on long small sticks. and that's exactly what my (free) wood supplier has enough to offer. so i don't need to saw. i just stick them in. even if they are 2meters long. if i had normal big chunks of wood i definitely would make a BBox. also, i am fond of the mass bank(warm butt). and i think a BBox is a bit to fast for good heat transfer in such a short time. (the big bell combination with bank was not a success in my setup.) and last but not least, i like the fact that you don't need to go on your knees to feed the fire. i measured the heat in the beginning of the fire tunnel and it gets easy 1200celcius. you can see in the last pictures that the fire insulating bricks are melting! they should withstand 1750celcius! so i like the idea that you can get this heat from a small fire for a longer time with the same or less wood then a BBox. you just have to be sure that you don't let to much (cold unburn) airflow through your system by neglecting the burn. for the other room, maybe i will make a BBox with a internal wall as bell. Congratulations. Your free fuel supply should be the most important factor! Only half a normal woodstove comsumption shows something is wrong, but leave an upgrade for next year. 130 years is so young for a house, where are you?? |
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Post by matthewwalker on Nov 21, 2017 15:24:08 GMT -8
Only half a normal woodstove comsumption shows something is wrong, but leave an upgrade for next year. Why do you say that Drooster? Has your experience been different? It sounds like a very good improvement to me, and mirrors my experience with my own change over. I've tested that RMH, it's more efficient than most. Did you have a different experience? |
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docbb
Junior Member
Back from ZA
Posts: 92
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Post by docbb on Nov 22, 2017 2:00:13 GMT -8
yeah, it was an adventure. my conclusion to stay with the J-tube (for now) is also a compromise. like all the fire boxes i have tried. .... for the other room, maybe i will make a BBox with a internal wall as bell. some inpiration : track "strawbale " user's quotes www.ecologie-pratique.org/forum/viewtopic.php?showtopic=3775&mode=&show=25&page=2and picture album www.ecologie-pratique.org/mediagallery/album.php?aid=1766&sort=0&page=2hij is neederlands talig google translation it's a mix between batch and J, even if I did not know these details when we built my RS. The drawing of my RS was a collaboration between Sjang van Daal (http://www.vuurenleem.nl/rocket-stove), site in Dutch (sorry), working with Peter Berg; Ger Stok (researcher at www.metaloterm.com/english/); and I (also Dutch, like the other three), living in Ariège. The design and calculation / sizing of the tunnel and the log box was done by Sjang (with my calculation of the need for kWh heat / 24h); the calculation of air inlets and the chimney, the design and production of all the metal parts (in stainless steel), and the prototype of the isoblock (http://www.metaloterm.com/english/passive_house/1/ 1288 / index.html), the first in France, by Ger (and his colleagues); the idea of separating the clothing from the stove itself (to avoid cracks and to better distribute the heat of the stove - especially around the tunnel and hoist - by the layer of air between the two: it works very well), the decision to mount the heatriser more than expected (a bit like a bell), and the decision to change the position of the draw flap (from the beginning of the horizontal channel to the end, to decrease losses) was mine. We think that the tunnel can be even smaller / narrow, but since I have no possibility to make a short circuit at startup I leave it like that. With bad conditions I can start with the open wood filler door or with the T in the inlet air tube (to take in indoor air). het is een mix tussen batch en J, zelfs als ik deze details niet kende toen we mijn RS bouwden.
De tekening van mijn RS was een samenwerking tussen Sjang van Daal (http://www.vuurenleem.nl/rocket-stove), site in het Nederlands (sorry), in samenwerking met Peter Berg; Ger Stok (onderzoeker op www.metaloterm.com/english/); en ik (ook Nederlands, net als de andere drie) woon in Ariège.
Het ontwerp en de berekening / dimensionering van de tunnel en het blok werd gedaan door Sjang (met mijn berekening van de behoefte aan kWh warmte / 24 uur); de berekening van luchtinlaten en de schoorsteen, de tekening en productie van alle metalen onderdelen (in roestvrij staal) en het prototype van de isoblock (http://www.metaloterm.com/english/passive_house/1/ 1288 / index.html), de eerste in Frankrijk, door Ger (en zijn collega's); het idee om de kleding van de kachel zelf te scheiden (om scheuren te voorkomen en om de hitte van de kachel beter te verdelen - vooral rond de tunnel en de takel - door de luchtlaag tussen de twee: het werkt heel goed), de beslissing om de warmtebron meer te monteren dan verwacht (een beetje als een bel), en de beslissing om de positie van de tekenflap te veranderen (van het begin van het horizontale kanaal tot het einde, om verliezen te verminderen) was de mijne.
We denken dat de tunnel nog kleiner / smal kan zijn, maar omdat ik bij het opstarten geen mogelijkheid heb om een kortsluiting te maken, laat ik het zo liggen. Onder slechte omstandigheden kan ik beginnen met de open houten vuldeur of met de T in de inlaatluchtbuis (om binnenlucht op te nemen). |
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Post by drooster on Nov 22, 2017 9:39:17 GMT -8
Only half a normal woodstove comsumption shows something is wrong, but leave an upgrade for next year. Why do you say that Drooster? Has your experience been different? It sounds like a very good improvement to me, and mirrors my experience with my own change over. I've tested that RMH, it's more efficient than most. Did you have a different experience? I'm surprised the previous woodstove used just twice the wood than that RMH, having read of greater savings on threads elsewhere, however you have measured and repeated years of experience so I change my mind to yours on this subject. |
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Post by matthewwalker on Nov 22, 2017 9:44:25 GMT -8
There's a reason I believe that on this forum we should share our experiences, not what we've read or think we know. One of our mantras: 99.9% of the stuff you see on youtube regarding rockets is utter bullshit. No one should expect to do better than half over their regular box stove, in my experience. Build things, light them on fire, talk about it. Please.
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Post by Dan (Upstate NY, USA) on Nov 23, 2017 1:52:07 GMT -8
Me too, when from 9 face cord to 4-5 face cord a year, just a lot more splitting, from steel box stove to 8" J-tube.
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marks
New Member
Posts: 20
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Post by marks on Nov 23, 2017 3:59:05 GMT -8
thanx for all the comments, i like to visit this forum like it is my virtual extension of my cozy(a typical dutch expression) living room. my old home is standing on the flat lands in the north of the Netherlands. it's in a town called heerenveen, known worldwide for it's ice skating tournaments and soccer. at the moment the wind is bashing around the house and shakes it's poor roof tiles. i just came home from a trip to Antwerp Belgium. and after 3 days absence the bench cooled down to, a still comfortable, 20 Celsius. the living room was 15 degrees. (outside 8 Celsius but windy) after 3 ours burning the bench is up to 40 degrees already. drooster Quote: "Only half a normal woodstove comsumption shows something is wrong, but leave an upgrade for next year" except if the old stove is efficient to  the old stove has a very good horizontal burning box and a flu warmth extractor with a lot of stone mass. (300kg) it also was burning only twice a day for 4 ours total. but this room was smaller. (40m3) photos.app.goo.gl/YEcHbX2NV5lL5DHh2photos.app.goo.gl/n2SDmcB1aiHENISr2the new rocket warms also the second floor by leaking warmth through the ceiling. my guess is it's warming a 90m3 in total. |
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