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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 3, 2009 17:58:20 GMT -8
I found the Kelly Kettle quite some time ago and after finding the Rocket Stove I wondered if this could be upscaled to a much larger water heater. I think this would be a very efficient design for storing heat right off of the chimney. The only downside I think would be the chimney taking longer to heat up and draw like its suppose to. Can this be done with some basic welding or is it another pipe dream? I would think that with proper insulation around the main storage on the water tank and a few hours of good heat you could heat 100, 200 or even more gallons and use the heat off of that to heat your house for some time. Swizzle
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Post by Donkey on Nov 4, 2009 8:09:46 GMT -8
Kelly Kettles are pretty cool, aren't they??
They aren't rocket stoves though. They break the biggest rule of rocket stoves, the insulated fire
I'm absolutely positive that a huge 200 gallon version of the Kelly would work just swimmingly. It couldn't be as efficient as a rocket stove though. The fire is in contact with the water chamber which cools the works and prevents the high temps needed for complete burn.
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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 4, 2009 9:08:34 GMT -8
I thought that might be the case. Even if the water was boiling a 200 degree pipe would most likely still cool down the flow a bit. It was worth a shot. I guess the best way to heat the water is going to be the coil of copper wrapped around the outside of the pipe. Speaking of the coil. This was another thing that got me thinking. Rocket stoves thrive on turbulence right? Why couldn't a tornado effect be created to twist the air flow right at the base of the riser. Or a small twist at the base of the riser that makes the air rotate before going up the pipe. As if these things aren't hot enough right. Swizzle
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Post by Donkey on Nov 4, 2009 9:26:34 GMT -8
Coils are a bit dangerous. Also, not the most efficient, as the surface area of the pipe, even coiled pipe) is relatively small. Personally, I go in for flowing heat directly over the tank.
"Vortexers", I believe we've been calling em.. They work great. Search these boards for "vortex", there will be some good info in there somewhere.
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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 4, 2009 9:52:34 GMT -8
I'm guessing that flowing heat directly over the tank refers to the heat leaving the riser and then flowing downward over the water tank. With a decent water heating system set up how long should it take to heat up 200 to 250 gallons of water hot enough to use it as a heat source? I was thinking at one point of re-purposing a 250 gallon kerosene tank (well cleaned) for a storage tank. I know I can get them for free. Craigslist seems to be a decent resource for finding that type of stuff. What would be the best way to insulate a monster tank that size and how long should that last before it needs to be re-heated? Swizzle
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Post by Donkey on Nov 5, 2009 3:33:13 GMT -8
Yeesh, I've no idea how long to heat 200+ gallons of water. Depends on the stove.
As to how long it would stay hot, there are just too many variables to know.
Gotta try it and let us know how it works out.
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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 5, 2009 10:35:25 GMT -8
Unfortunately I won't be trying it out until I can get my own property. Then I'd bury most of the tank or have it in a small shed. I think 2 water tanks would be better in this case with a tank in the heater and the main storage tank in a well insulated building and a circulation pump. Swizzle
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Post by Donkey on Nov 5, 2009 11:22:52 GMT -8
... Hmm..
Ya know, heating a remote mass and pumping heat from it into a living space isn't the most efficient way to go. In fact it's just about as inefficient as you can get.
It's better to heat a mass inside the home and sit on it. It's difficult to get across in words the real difference. Pumping warmed air around is a brute force way of heating that uses FAR MORE energy than is really necessary to heat a living space and when the door gets opened, out goes the heat, so you gotta pump in that much more to make up for it.
Placing a solid mass, weighing tons inside the living space and warming it, even to relatively low temperatures is superior in every way. Me parked on my heated bench, you could leave the doors open and let an arctic blast through, I'd be fine. When the doors get closed again, the space itself warms MUCH faster as well.
Basic rule to live by: Heat the people, not the house.
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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 5, 2009 13:51:42 GMT -8
If I had a regular house on my own land then I would have no problems building everything with cob on a small scale first of course until I know what I'm doing is the right way. Living in a trailer on soft ground isn't ideal for heavy mass. Even my loose block set up will need to be re-leveled ever couple years. Is there a way to add mass to the trailer itself without putting weight on the wheels and blocks that's holding it up? Hell if I had my own property I'd start by building a cob shed and then go bigger and better from there. Maybe even an underground house. I wouldn't mind mowing the roof once in a while. Swizzle
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hpmer
Full Member
Posts: 240
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Post by hpmer on Nov 5, 2009 15:11:33 GMT -8
Sounds like peterberg's bell might be a better way to go. Less weight, but still even heating. Of course, lounging on it like Donkey likes to do might be a bit more of a challenge ; )
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Post by swizzlenutz on Nov 5, 2009 15:30:05 GMT -8
You'd need 2 bell's with a hammock in the middle? Swizzle
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johnf
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by johnf on Dec 11, 2009 15:08:31 GMT -8
I'll have to dig around: I remember an experimenter's rocket powered water heater.
He'd scavanged a tank out of a water heater, and another steel vessel for it to sit inside. The top of the rocket burner vertical combustion chamber was at the bottom of the outer vessel, and the exhaust flowed up around the tank, exiting the top.
What sort of safety release valve? A simple overflow port at the top?
Suggestion to build it above where you're going to have your bath/shower. Maybe a portable one? The rocket stove body might be the most massive part (with an empty tank), since it's got to have enough structure to hold up the filled water tank.
Would you make it a classic simple rocket elbow, or more like the household stoves, with the horizontal burn tunnel going to the vertical smoke burning chimney? Self-feeding might be nice since it might take a while.
I suppose you could change the layout by having the water tank horizontal, with the exhaust flowing past it to the uptake.
Modular so you can take it apart for moving? It would go over great at things like outdoor multi-day events like SCA or Burning Man. How much could you charge for 10 minutes?
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Post by Donkey on Dec 11, 2009 15:54:06 GMT -8
For lightweight-ness, you could make (or have made) a welded steel rocket stove.
I'd make a straight forward rocket J-tube burner that dumped into a bell, inside the bell I'd weld a small water tank. The guts would be enclosed in a metal box and in between, I'd pour pearlite to insulate the whole thing.
If you insulate around the bell, it's strictly a (quite efficient) hot water heater. If the bell is left uninsulated, it becomes a space heater too. Although it wouldn't have enough thermal mass to consider as storage, it should put a good deal of heat out and would act like a clean burning, metal, box stove.
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