Bell Explanation?:

[JJ]

I've been out of the innovative rocket mass tech for a few years - been concentrating on permaculture and hydro/aqua ponics. But now I'm coming back to see new tech - "bell" tech...bell rocket mass? Russian Bell? I am interested in what this "bell" is.

Can anyone give me a quick over view of what it is? I'm looking over the net and there doesn't seem to be anywhere that has a consistent description or "technical how it works" summary.

Anyone?

[Deleted]

A stove bell is simply a space where heat is extracted,
enough tall and wide to allow separation of hot and cold gas by gravity.

[JJ]

Oct 5, 2014 9:05:16 GMT -8 @karl said:

A stove bell is simply a space where heat is extracted,
enough tall and wide to allow separation of hot and cold gas by gravity.

Ok. So in my thermal battery for the typical rocket mass heater...instead of using stove pipe like I typically would with elbows..etc - I would build something like this:

www.sundogbuilders.net/rocket/AdobeDragon/DSCF3077.jpeg

??

I'm very interested in this...but do I still use a manifold coming out of the combustion unit for this? I see the purpose of the bell is to trap the heat and let go of the cold. Does this still allow for heat retention in the thermal battery made of cob?

I'm sure I sound like a dimwit atm - but once I got the concept down it'll sink in...just takes a min since I'm so thick skulled bohemian lol.

[Deleted]

Simulation of a double-bell.
energy.concord.org/energy2d/double-bell2.html

[satamax]

Twisted, a bell is a box, made of whatever you want, where the hot gases, being less dense, are pushed up by the denser colder ones. There's two holes near floor level, one for the intake, one for the exhaust.

In it's principle itself, it tends to keep the hot gases inside for a long time, compared to a chimney, or may be even an horizontal pipe. They then get more time to exchange the heat with surounding materials, would it be cob or concrete, stone or whatnot. So you can have a thermal battery. I have an acointance, who has a 9 ton mass for his mass stove. It's multiple bells and channels. With a normal fireplace insert iirc.

www.stove.ru/index.php?lng=1&rs=16

[JJ]

Very Very Very much appreciated for the links guys.

So in your honest opinion - is this more efficient than a typical rocket mass heater with a 40 foot thermal battery? Not entirely sure that my joists - even though supported underneath with thick barn beams - will hold all those tons....

[Deleted]

Bells have very little resistance,
while long runs of stove pipe through mass have a lot resistance.
Bells can have much more inner surface than the resistance of pipes would allow,
thus bells are a lot more efficient.

[JJ]

Well, I suppose I'll try that shallow bell design in my thermal battery then. I'm gonna have to do a lot more research. I'll have to put up pics on my other thread - my mid michigan one - and maybe if you guys have time you can give me some pointers. That animation really allowed me to conceptualize it better. My first thought: how come I didn't think of that? lol

Thanks so much for the info karl.

[satamax]

s65.photobucket.com/user/mremine/library/NYC%20Rocket%20Stove%20Build/#/user/mremine/library/NYC%20Rocket%20Stove%20Build?sort=3&page=1&_suid=141254438970306039439251848504

[JJ]

Oct 5, 2014 13:26:44 GMT -8 satamax said:

s65.photobucket.com/user/mremine/library/NYC%20Rocket%20Stove%20Build/#/user/mremine/library/NYC%20Rocket%20Stove%20Build?sort=3&page=1&_suid=141254438970306039439251848504

Oh my gosh??? Those barrels are the bells? So...the bells don't actually "have" to be made of brick ya?

[satamax]

Bells can be made of pretty much anything fireproof.

[pinhead]

A "bell" can be literally any enclosed space with a low inlet and a low outlet.

[satamax]

Oct 8, 2014 8:16:46 GMT -8 pinhead said:

A "bell" can be literally any enclosed space with a low inlet and a low outlet.

As long as it is 4X the CSA of the flue!

[pinhead]

IMO the following demo explains the working of a bell just about as well as I ever could:

energy.concord.org/energy2d/double-bell2.html

[endrunner]

Here is another quick explanation

blog.dragonheaters.com/wood-heat-storage-flues-vs-bells/