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Post by photoman290 on Oct 2, 2014 11:34:58 GMT -8
i am wondering if i should use oil or water for a short term thermal mass. i plan is to use a m67 oil fired immersion heater to heat a 200 ltr drum of oil or water for heating my yurt till i finish my RHM the plan is heat the fluid to 65C and then pump it from the insulated drum with the m67 in it to a uninsulated drum inside the yurt. i have both oil and water. 65c is the max temperature of the hose i am planning to use. the pump is a cheap chinese immersible pump sold for pumping diesel. 30 ltrs a minute at 12 v simple and safe. i am having trouble deciding. any thoughts anyone? this is just a stop gap to get a bit heat into the yurt.
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Post by Donkey on Oct 2, 2014 19:51:37 GMT -8
What advantage are you trying to get out of the liquids system? Why is it more appealing than building the stove inside the yurt and sitting on it??
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Post by photoman290 on Oct 3, 2014 1:57:24 GMT -8
m67's are well known for being unpredictable and just a little dangerous. they have a tendency to run backwards and shoot flames out of the intake,as i have found out. the yurt is full of highly flammable things. not a good combination. that is why i want to keep the heat source outside. i do have a drip feed oil heater in the bus,but i dont want to cut a hole in the yurt roof as i intend to run the RHM flue out though the wall. i have been looking at a interesting design for a solar cooker using calcium oxide. you drive the water off with a solar concentrator and drip water onto the calcium oxide and that reaction releases heat. outside rocket stove heat up the Calcium oxide add water when you need the heat. cheap and simple.
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Post by Daryl on Oct 3, 2014 2:26:34 GMT -8
Photoman, are you thinking of a design similar to an outdoor wood burner/boiler? Interesting concept.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 4:42:59 GMT -8
For heating iron oxide/hydroxide FeO/Fe(OH) 2 would be more interesting as the charge/discharge temperature is only 150°C and the storage density is higher.
A Critical Review of Thermochemical Energy Storage Systems benthamopen.com/torej/articles/V004/42TOREJ.pdf
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Post by photoman290 on Oct 3, 2014 5:14:47 GMT -8
For heating iron oxide/hydroxide FeO/Fe(OH) 2 would be more interesting as the charge/discharge temperature is only 150°C and the storage density is higher.
A Critical Review of Thermochemical Energy Storage Systems benthamopen.com/torej/articles/V004/42TOREJ.pdf i think those hand warming pacs for people with raynards are iron oxide based. i have experience of those as a friend suffers from raynards.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 6:05:42 GMT -8
AFAIK hand warmers are based on sodium acetate. Another interesting material is gypsum (CaSO 4·2H 2O<>CaSO 4 + 2H 2O ). The storage capycity is much lower than with oxides of calcium or iron, but with a charge/discharge temperature of just 89°C it could even be charged by the sun at relatively low environment temperatures. Very high storage capacity at 122°C charge discharge is offered by Epsomite (MgSO4·7H2O). Thermochemical Energy Storage Systems: Modelling, Analysis and Design ir.library.dc-uoit.ca/bitstream/10155/119/1/Haji%20Abedin_Ali.pdf
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Post by photoman290 on Oct 3, 2014 8:29:55 GMT -8
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Post by mwalimu on Oct 24, 2014 0:32:02 GMT -8
Why not heating the drum outside heated with a (cooking) rocket stove? There should be an insulation around the outside drum. If the drum on the outside is lower than on the inside, the water will circulate by itself (if the hosepipes are well mounted and properly primed). From oil I would stay away. Too messy and combustible. Water is fine.
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on Oct 24, 2014 7:41:05 GMT -8
Just stick with monolithic mass!!
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Post by mkorofi on Oct 24, 2014 20:19:05 GMT -8
Just stick with monolithic mass!! Why? -Water stores 4 times as much heat as monolithc mass, up to 100°C / 212°F -Over that, monolithc mass seems to have the advantage. But you need to heat it up to 400°C / 752°F, to store the same amount per weight. This is not easy to be achieved, and not very comfortable. -The place of heat production and use can be far away, only connected with two hose pipes, -you can store heat from various sources in one waer container (e.g. solar and stove) To store heat in a limited space or on a ground bearing only little weight water should be considered. And also where combustible are to close to heat, water can heat transfer there. The problem is that one has to learn new things. But this will prevent Alzheimer.. I mostly combine mass and water, and there are more ways to do that than on will think.
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on Oct 25, 2014 3:35:18 GMT -8
Good points... I made my comment because of his almost zero budget and the environment (it is in a yurt).
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Post by photoman290 on Oct 25, 2014 7:31:16 GMT -8
making progress on the spike burner/oil drum hybrid. can keep it at 60C to 120C on the top so happy with that. will post more when i tidied it up a bit,but so far seems to be good. bit too warm today to really test it. i am sure that wont last.
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