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Post by dpottier on Aug 22, 2014 22:01:47 GMT -8
Moved from the "Making a trip wire" thread on the "Experiments, results" board. like the mind candy analogy. think as winter is not that far away i should stop eating candy and get on with finishing my winter RMH project. deeply into geopolymer research as well as this. keep up the good work i am finding it really interesting. Thank you, I am happy you are finding the thought processes interesting. Geopolymers sound interesting. What is the maximum temperatures (C) the proven ceramics will stand? My research work in Geology was in the area of volcanics, specifically mineral formation in cooling lava. Feldspathoids were the first to form in basaltic lavas. Are you doing the research as a lay person with a view towards the RMH or as a scientific community researcher? I have a passion for flexible concrete and wonder how it would work with a geopolymer. More "what if..." mind candy. :-) Mind candy is a tasty treat for sure. Here is just one piece of it for experimenters to chew on for a solution: This is the standard Mongolia winter stove. In Ulaan Baatar, the capital, we have more than 150,000 of them burning coal, old rubber tires and plastic bottles for 8+ months of every year. In the countryside the nomads burn cow dung as the principle source of cooking and heating fuel but Ulaan Baatar is not the countryside. We have coal....  WHO guidelines say average concentrations of the tiniest pollution particles - called PM2.5 - should be no more than 25 microgrammes per cubic metre. Air is unhealthy above 100 microgrammes and at 300, all children and elderly people should remain indoors. Ulaan Baatar has exceeded PM2.5 levels of 1500Once inhaled, the tiny particles can make people more vulnerable to respiratory infections, as well as leading to increased mortality from liver and lung cancers and heart disease. Liver cancer is Ulaan Baatar's leading cause of death. Mongolia is ranked #1 in the world for deaths from liver cancer and the population is under 3 million with 1.3 million living in Ulaan Baatar, which is also the world's coldest capital city.
BEIJING January 13, 2013Particulate Matter 2.5 - 630.6 micrograms per cubic meter - 1 day Health Statement – Beyond China’s Index Scale. Beijing radio warned everyone to stay indoors. Ulaan Baatar – 2012-2013 Monthly Averages  What is needed? An efficient rocket stove "add on" unit to fit the existing stoves and that anyone can build from things that are readily available such as scrap pipe, old car frames, small barrels, etc. and it must burn coal as the main fuel source AND it must prevent the use of fuels such as old tires and plastics. Is it important to North America? YES! It takes the pollution from Ulaan Baatar about 10-15 days to reach North America. Then it falls from the skies and enters the lungs and the eco system. David |
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Post by photoman290 on Aug 23, 2014 2:24:33 GMT -8
david,
i am just a lay person doing research for curiosity. i could just buy refractory cement, but the goepolymer option sounds more intersting as well as being more eco friendly. cost wise it is around the same, or slightly cheaper depending on how many experiments i end up doing. intersting you should mention mongolia as the aim of this exersise is to heat a yurt. having COPD and being astmatic as well i like to reduce my intake of particulates as much as possible. solar heated hot water would be the ideal but havent got around to that yet. simple but expensive if using evacuated tubes. bulky if using flat panels.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 3:07:07 GMT -8
Geopolymers sound interesting. What is the maximum temperatures (C) the proven ceramics will stand? That depends mainly on the chemical composition eg. the amount of aluminosilicates, but also on the physical structure. General rule: The more aluminosilicates the higher the service temperature. With high amounts of aluminosilicates the service temperature can be up to 1700°C. In experiments metakaolin geopolymers have been heated to 1400°C without any sign of damage. Geopolymers are similar to zeolites, which can have melting points around 2000°C. Some companies are selling geopolymers based on silicon carbide for about 2000°C service temperature. Fly ash geopolymers could have service temperatures of 1200°C - 1300°C, as the amount of aluminosilicates is rather low and the thin walled bubble structure makes more sensitive for heat. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 3:29:07 GMT -8
simple but expensive if using evacuated tubes. OT It is very simple to make cheap DIY evacuated tubes. Close one end of a tube and fill in a small amount of water, then heat it until steam comes out of the upper end and close the tube while the water is steaming out of the tube. The principle behind: Water is expanding/shringking 1600 times if the phase changes at about 100°C. Due to the resulting high vacuum the remaining water can start steaming at 0°C, thus moving heat from the warmer to the colder end. There are some videos on YouTube. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 6:47:19 GMT -8
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Post by aparker on Aug 23, 2014 12:42:18 GMT -8
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Post by dpottier on Aug 23, 2014 17:47:21 GMT -8
i am just a lay person doing research for curiosity. I am also a lay person in that I am not a paid researcher. I have been doing theoretical work on the causative agents of lung and other cancers for about 40 years. A few2 years ago I talked to a Toxicology Prof friend about the theory. He, in turn, told an Oncology group at a major hospital. Their jaws dropped with an, "OMG, he's right". When a paid researcher finds a solution they are out of work. Both eco friendly and cost effective are an added bonus when dealing with high tech materials. Usually we have to pay much higher prices for better results. solar heated hot water would be the ideal but havent got around to that yet. simple but expensive if using evacuated tubes. bulky if using flat panels. If you want to think about solar heated hot water and also the RMH heat sink, here's more mind candy. How about a heat sink or Thermal Energy Storage (TES) system with a reversible exothermic adsorption process that would absorb heat from the waste heat in the RMH stack and provide long term thermal energy storage for later release. The stored energy can not degrade with time and the system can be recharged repeatedly without significant loss of performance. So you use the RMH on Monday and the weather gets warm between Tuesday and Thursday then colder on Friday. You don't light another fire, you simply go to the TES system and get the heat back that you stored on Monday. You can use it for home or water heating. How about storing July's heat for use in November? :-) Sorry you have COPD. If it were me I would look towards the medicines of China and away from the Pharma doctors. David |
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Post by dpottier on Aug 23, 2014 18:00:35 GMT -8
Fresh air at a low price. Impossible in a city of 1.3 million where more than 700,000 live in gers (yurts) and have no electricity, no running water, no sewage or garbage disposal. Hepa filters might work in the developed world but when the air outside barely lets you see across the street there is no easy solution. Some wear cloth masks but that is just false hope as the toxic materials pass right through the cotton. |
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Post by dpottier on Aug 23, 2014 19:45:48 GMT -8
Karl That's kind of cool once you find a local source for the glass tubes all you need is a propane torch (s). Water is scarce in Mongolia. Ger District residents don't have any so we see solar powered bath houses with about 5 evacuated tube heaters on the roof. I think they sell for around $100 USD here but China is just South of us so sourcing is easy David |
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Post by aparker on Aug 24, 2014 1:46:24 GMT -8
What is needed? An efficient rocket stove "add on" unit to fit the existing stoves and that anyone can build from things that are readily available such as scrap pipe, old car frames, small barrels, etc. and it must burn coal as the main fuel source AND it must prevent the use of fuels such as old tires and plastics. To move this new thread back on topic, I suggest we concentrate on the statement above. We can start by identifying what already exists in UB, both traditional and "improved". There has been some previous discussion about burning coal in a rocket stove. Has anyone burned coal in a batch-box rocket? Given New Dawn's low-cost improvements to the traditional Mongolian stove, could some of peterberg's batch-box rocket design elements be incorporated? |
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Post by dpottier on Aug 24, 2014 4:09:12 GMT -8
dpottier, you may be interested in reviewing these documents regarding low-cost modifications to the typical Mongolian coal stove: VERY interested! I had not seen these before. Thank you very much. I see another Canadian is the designer. We have two serious pollution peaks here in Ulaan Baatar. Firstly, more than 150,000 stoves are involved and all being lit at various times for either cooking and/or heating. The first pollution spike occurs when the stoves are lit, a second spike occur about 90 minutes later when more coal is added. Now randomize these two and multiply by 150,000+ stoves and we have a constant orange atmosphere 8 months a year. These lights are mercury lights so the lite is actually a blue white in unpolluted air, not orange.  From my apartment in Sansar District, taken last winter at 08:30 and looking towards the SOS Medical Clinic and the Mongolian University of Science and Technology. The photos were taken mid-November, mid-December and mid-January. When it gets bad I can not see the street.  Sansar is on a hill and the worst pollution levels are in the low lying city core about 3 km away and even worse levels at the source in the Ger Districts. The politicals have talked about ending the pollution for 14 years and done nothing. Sadly I think it is too late for the population of this city. They will all die of pollution related causes. Even sadder is the legacy they leave for Gen2 and Gen3, as the number of birth defects will increase in these generations even if we can end the pollution in the next few years. |
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Post by ericvw on Aug 24, 2014 17:22:54 GMT -8
Tha is very sad and disturbing dpottier,
May I be so curious as to ask what is it that puts you there? Employment or some such? I hope you'll be able to get back to the other side of the world soon... As an aside, I like the latest flow video...
Be safe David,
Eric
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Post by aparker on Aug 24, 2014 18:42:41 GMT -8
Does UB get winter inversions? We often have inversions here in the Salt Lake valley that last for weeks and often result in a dense ice fog, mixed with pollution. They ban the use of coal stoves and limit wood stoves in those conditions. We haven't had to deal with it for several years, so I suppose we are due.
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott is the other Canadian. He works with Prof Sereeter Lodoysamba of the National University of Mongolia.
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like the mind candy analogy. think as winter is not that far away i should stop eating candy and get on with finishing my winter RMH project. deeply into geopolymer research as well as this. keep up the good work i am finding it really interesting. Thank you, I am happy you are finding the thought processes interesting. 
