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Post by firewatcher on Aug 28, 2016 18:14:27 GMT -8
Thanks for the advice on mixtures...this is very helpful...based on the info, these lower concentrations should make my waterglass mix less costly.
I was able to find the Red Devil product listed on line through a local store's web site (only $1 more than the price listed directly through Red Devil web site). So I'll have to see if they in fact sell it in the store as they indicate (i've run into this problem before).
In the mean time, I've cast another puck per your suggestions with an increased 5/1 ratio of slag/pozzolan (in my case perlite) using my 2L waterglass concentration. I'm letting it dry overnight and i'll see what i can do about drying it out more thoroughly tomorrow if possible. This one i also made thinner...only about 25 mm thick.
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lawry
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Post by lawry on Aug 28, 2016 22:35:52 GMT -8
The waterglass is my most costly part of the mix by FAR...at least in the amounts that i used in the mix. 450 g of lye costs around $4 1.82 kg of silica gel (cat litter) was about $8 Quick rough math says that i can get about 3 "batches" of sodium silicate out of 1 bag of silica gel + 3 containers of lye ($20 total) Hi firewatcher. Are you planning to build 1 stove? Or will you maybe build a couple of them? If you can find a supplier of bulk quantities of sodium silicate then your cost will go down. Even for lye. Around me I can find sodium silicate at $22 for 300kg drum. |
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 29, 2016 4:23:56 GMT -8
The waterglass is my most costly part of the mix by FAR...at least in the amounts that i used in the mix. 450 g of lye costs around $4 1.82 kg of silica gel (cat litter) was about $8 Quick rough math says that i can get about 3 "batches" of sodium silicate out of 1 bag of silica gel + 3 containers of lye ($20 total) Hi firewatcher. Are you planning to build 1 stove? Or will you maybe build a couple of them? If you can find a supplier of bulk quantities of sodium silicate then your cost will go down. Even for lye. Around me I can find sodium silicate at $22 for 300kg drum. Hi Lawry, I'm definately not opposed to making more than one stove (I'd like to do some testing with a longer batch box as well as possibly a j-tube design as well)...my brother is also interested and has been researching all of this with me. If i could find quantities of waterglass in the cost range that you mentioned, it would be fantastic! What type of place did you find the material that you mentioned at? Directly from a supplier? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2016 5:15:57 GMT -8
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lawry
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Post by lawry on Aug 29, 2016 5:34:38 GMT -8
What type of place did you find the material that you mentioned at? Directly from a supplier? Yes from a supplier. Look for suppliers that supply soap fabric softener making factories. The place I found buys sodium silicate lumps from India and then they process it for their clients. |
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 29, 2016 6:19:22 GMT -8
Well...I guess I'll be searching for bulk dry sodium silicate while I make more test pucks!
Thanks you both for the information and for a search starting point.
This process of learning about refractories and geopolymers has taught me so much already about what is in some of the products that we often use. It's amazing.
Keep the great information coming!
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 29, 2016 12:57:20 GMT -8
Well...I guess I'll be searching for bulk dry sodium silicate while I make more test pucks! Thanks you both for the information and for a search starting point. This process of learning about refractories and geopolymers has taught me so much already about what is in some of the products that we often use. It's amazing. Keep the great information coming! My search so far has only yielded one result as far as a "supplier" is concerned and unfortunately they are way too far away to pick any amount of product up directly from them (if they would even sell to me). www.pqcorp.com/pc/North-America/Products/Sodium-Silicate-Solids |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2016 13:46:35 GMT -8
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 29, 2016 14:32:05 GMT -8
I looked at Thomasnet and didn't run accross them, but did find two places in Toledo, Ohio which i was planning on contacting (Toledo isn't terribly far away and i know someone who lives near there who might be willing to help me out by picking some up if they'll sell it to me). Now i have three places to check out. Thanks for checking and passing the info along. I'll be writing e-mails tonight it looks like! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2016 15:07:58 GMT -8
By the way campfire:
You could place tin cans filled with clay powder in the fire to calcine the clay and as you know even collect the ash.
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 30, 2016 8:31:50 GMT -8
By the way campfire: You could place tin cans filled with clay powder in the fire to calcine the clay and as you know even collect the ash. I have a 4 gallon bucket of sifted wood ash ready to be used for something...before i started trying your geopolymer recipes, i was trying mixes with just fire clay and wood ash and aggregate mixed with water. Unfortunately i never got any of those mixes to harden up like pottery to the point where they were wear resistant or even strong. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 9:43:34 GMT -8
You would have needed some waterglass.
I have added some information in the "Ash Tray Geopolymer"
White oak, wheat and barley straw ashes contain very high amounts of potassium.
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 30, 2016 12:17:18 GMT -8
Today's been a slow day...I finally got the chance to reach out to 3 of the chemical suppliers (thanks again) for info on pricing for bulk quantities of sodium metasilicate.
In addition, I've only been able to cast 1 new puck. It's basically the same recipe that I used before that worked really well, except in this test, I used some zeolite that I was FINALLY able to get powderized in the ball mill. I also made this test puck only 1 inch thick (about 25mm). We'll see how it goes when it's cured. If it's anything like the sample made with powderized perlite, it'll be great.
In the meanwhile I'm going to do a little math and see how much geopolymer I would need to do a test run with the mix in a mold for a 6 inch j-tube (my goal is to mold a batch box, but the j-tube is much quicker and easier to build the mold for.
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Post by firewatcher on Aug 30, 2016 13:44:22 GMT -8
Karl, Do you think that diatomaceous earth could substitute well in a refractory mix in place of perlite or zeolite? I'm still trying to get my hands on the powderized material from the supplier that said they'd work with me, but it's been almost 2 weeks now and i haven't heard from them. I know that i can go to a swimming pool supply store and get the diatomacious earth whenever it's convenient. If nothing else, maybe i can find someone with a pool, that uses it in their filter, and get a small sample to try out. This way i could test without having to buy a giant bag (in case it doesn't work and I'm stuck with a bunch and no use for it). www.researchgate.net/publication/230106773_Pozzolanic_Activity_of_Diatomaceous_Earth |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:45:44 GMT -8
Washed and purified diatomaceous earth as used for swimming pools is pure silica (SiO2). It can be dissolved with lye to make waterglass. Pozzolanic activity refers only to the ability to react with calcium hydroxide. Geopolymerisation needs some aluminosilicates. You always can place some tin cans with clay powder in a campfire or barrel kiln, to get calcined clay and even use the ash. Natural zeolite is used for swimming pools too. Also you may try at: Rovin Ceramics Inc 253 Dino Dr, Suite A Ann Arbor, MI. 48103 rovinceramics.com/Contact: 734.424.3345 orders@rovinceramics.com They sell among other things: Mullite grog 200M, very high alumina content. Minspar Feldspar 200M, gets down to, 65 cent from 50pound and 50 cent from 100 pound upward.. Soda Ash (Sodium Carbonate). Calcium hydroxide can be used to get the sodium hydroxide from it. 50 pound upwards $1.00 Together with diatomaceous earth that is all you need for a binder. |
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