Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 20, 2014 5:17:29 GMT -8
Cramer, your galv pipe should hold just fine. Outside the burner, you might have 600 or 700C° absolute maximum, transfered by the materials, on a very localized point. But it will be cooled by the hot gases. I think, there's no wories to have, at all. Thanks Max. There are two (three with mine) votes for the configuration now so I think I will go with it!
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 21:01:19 GMT -8
Matt, acacia = black locust. Peter, i've had a thing rumaging through my head lately. In cases like this, i think we could do an "horizontal riser" I know it's impossible with a cob bench. But with a bell, we could keep a feed tube or batch box, along burn tunel, where the gases would all be burned. Then that would spread into the bell, cooling somewhat. Then go up an insulated chimney with the mouth at about the same level as the burn tunel. Like separating the elements forming a rocket stove. We would have to keep more heat to power the chimney. But who knows where that might lead. Interesting thought Max. I do see where you are coming from on this. As long as the draft up the vertical chimney is strong enough the burn might be pretty complete by the time it exits the long burn tunnel. Laminar flow might be a problem as there is no disruption with an angle going to the riser section but maybe multiple trip wires or something of the sort could overcome that problem... that is thinking outside of the box for certain Max.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 20:25:08 GMT -8
System 2 with a low flow mixing valve on the outlet would be my choice. Safest one I can see and the water inside the coil can not flash to steam because the energy required to do that could not be transferred through the coil. I would use a mixing valve on the outlet to prevent the possibility of scalding temperatures at the shower head if there was a long enough wait between showers to bring the water in the coil to scalding temperatures.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 19:56:53 GMT -8
I'm usually standing them vertical Cramer, so I just set them on top of each other. Sometimes I'll use a utility knife to make a little shiplap joint, but I don't do much beyond that. I thought I read that someone wrapped them in ceramic paper and used furnace cement to stick it all together. I think if I were trying to do what you are, with those materials, I'd probably find a piece of ducting(10"?), or make one, that could serve as a canister for your composite riser elements. That way you wouldn't be relying on any of those materials to stay rigid inside the heater. Just a thought. I was thinking along the same lines. I was trying to figure out if a length of 10" HVAC duct (not flue pipe but 26GA duct, galvanized) would hold up to the temperature of the base of the burner. It would be isolated from the actual combustion so I was thinking all should be fine. I think I shall try it that way. If the material at the base of the duct does deteriorate then I could devise a support (maybe a stack of fire brick) to cradle the remaining duct work to provide support inside the bell.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 19:19:37 GMT -8
I will be having the burner section poured tomorrow. I will try to remember to take a picture of the crude mold before having it poured. It looks funny but I firmly believe it will work just fine after installing the riser into the core. I got the riser sleeves today. Can anyone who uses these let me know how to "glue" them to one another? They are 1/2 inch wall, 1 foot long, 6 inch inside diameter sleeves. Flat on both top and bottom. I recall Joris Paul's sleeves on the build Robert observed (the one with the water coils on the exterior behind the "skin") had an angle on them. Concave at one end and convex on the other but nothing on that thread said what material was used to stick them together? Anybody know? Matt? Peter? I know you guys have this kind of riser setup. What did you use? (If you see this post that is) The sleeves, once attached end to end will be wrapped in Cerablanket, then in 1/4 inch Kaowool paper. I will use rigidizer on the blanket and paper to stiffen it up so that I will not depend on the riser sleeves to bear the sheering effect of an angled riser. Slowly coming together, wish me luck! It will be a pretty expensive FAIL if it does not work out but the experience will be of value to all. I expect it to work well though according to my test and all of the help and guidance from here.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 19:03:07 GMT -8
Still back flow issues on windy days. Thanks for all the help guys! I know it looks bulky but this will for all intents and purposes totally elimate the windy days problem for you. Many folks in wind prone areas still use these because they work VERY well. One can easily make one but I will be purchasing mine because I think it not really worth the effort to build one. Take a look. I suggested it to someone earlier who was having smoke back on windy days and they reported back that it solved their problem... For what it's worth.... Glad it is working well for you now!
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 18:40:12 GMT -8
Hey y'all.. Due to conversations elsewhere, I've made an .XL sheet for calculating heat generated and transferred to the water.My math skills are pretty rudimentary (and my understanding of spread sheets) but I think that what I've done is correct.. There are links to my source material inside the .XL sheet. It should be self explanatory but if anyone needs explanation of an item or my assumptions, go ahead and ask.. This is really meant to start a conversation. Anyone interested in double-checking this, correcting my mistakes, adding stuff I've missed or pointing out a better way to this?? (please) A few questions I am not quite understanding: Where did your assumption of % efficiency of heat transferred to water come from? Is this the water in the buffering tank or the water in the tubing you speak of? Is the coil in the buffering tank in a closed loop to a holding tank?
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 17, 2014 15:35:16 GMT -8
Apologies for causing any confusion here - my earlier response probably should've ended with "so look for similar symptoms on the Kaowool if temperatures approaching 2300F are reached." Thanks Morticcio! I hope not to have to worry much over it. I am thinking of using some ITC-100 on the inside of the sleeves to possibly thwart any deterioration of the sleeves.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 14:56:53 GMT -8
Thanks Pinhead, I did not know that would be the case. I figured optimizing it created a hotter burn. Must have read that wrong.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 14:54:05 GMT -8
No Trance. Morticcio said HE had a rockwool riser fail and crumble. I am thinking that the vacuum formed 2300 F riser sleeves might be okay. What I was looking into is the mode of failure so I could know what to watch for IN CASE of failure of the sleeve. The burner mold is made and I will get the pour done as soon as I can but the riser sleeves have not arrived as yet.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 3:24:04 GMT -8
Thanks Morticcio. since the rockwool has a much lower working temperature than the Kaowool and I am not optimizing with P-Channel, trip wire and kick tail, (purposely) so as not to exceed the working temperature (hopefully) of the riser sleeves, maybe I will be okay at 2300 F.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 11, 2014 15:40:31 GMT -8
Welcome Nort, your idea looks very much like a Peter van den Berg batch box. You might want to do a lot of reading through the threads on these boards. You will gain much information. The boiler part I don't know about but there is much information on batch boxes here for you.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 10, 2014 16:09:46 GMT -8
Well, I am going to give them a try. What? You ask. I found some Kaowool 1/2 in wall riser sleeves rated at 2300 F. I am thinking of wrapping them in Cerablanket 1 1/2 inches and then 1/2 inch Kaowool paper (both with rigidizer) to make my riser. I hope the temperatures will not exceed the riser sleeves rating but I fear they might. What may happen if that happens with Cerablanket wrapped around it (which I think is rated at 2600 F. When (if) the riser sleeve fails what is the result of failure? Crumbling? Slumping? Melting? Does anybody know?
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 9, 2014 16:28:53 GMT -8
Built the mold today. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture of it to post. It ain't pretty but I think it will be functional enough.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 7, 2014 14:18:40 GMT -8
Quite nice! Me gusta la musica!
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