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Post by patamos on Jun 23, 2019 18:30:23 GMT -8
How about that sodium silicate with sand you mentioned before, to coat or line the fire chambers? Thanks Marcios. the SSS mix is good for patching small busted areas in the fore box. Sticks pretty well to softer low grade firebricks. Kinda helps as mortar between pre-used kiln IFBricks. BUt it will fall out of any thing softer like ceramic fibre board - unless you form a good shell with it.
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Post by patamos on Jun 23, 2019 9:58:13 GMT -8
Having querried more than a few old time heater builders... I get the sense that fuel quality (eg well seasoned and stored) and how we load it, are really the biggest factors in day to day efficiency. No matter how well designed a fire box is, if the operator doesn't have their act together, it will not perform well. For example, a common masonry fire box with under air supply is less efficient in testing than the newer highly touted eco-box. But it generates a stronger draft and initial burn rate than the eco-box. So, if the wood is damp the eco-box will have trouble ramping up and will not do as well. There are a lot of people out there burning green/wet wood... so... take your pick. The potential for changes in fuel load height location can be a factor in any heater with a top-exit throat. Trev solves this by careful loading as described above. Other designs solve it (somewhat) by having a smaller, longer lower firebox. Matt Walker's side exit with a split riser probably solves the problem better than anyone. But that is a small firebox that may require multiple reloads for larger heating applications. Then again, it offers a great cook top and oven... The way i see it, Trev is optimizing the middle ground between masonry heaters and rockets. Mid size fire box. 'Trick re-burn' features downstream that make it burn quite clean with good fuel and ideal loading. BUt also the kind of thing you could just throw a fairly large volume of variable quality fuel into and it will do well enough. my 2c
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Post by patamos on Jun 21, 2019 19:24:06 GMT -8
Oh ya, Trev's core is a fine way to go. I built a few of his earlier version vortex as full size masonry heaters with benches. This was a build/mod concurrent with his triple layer/deck/box aryan. And i settled on the triple as well. Peter's early look into double shoe with a fire fountain showed a more chaotic post-port mix to burn a bit cleaner, and also reminded me of a russian video Docbb shared a few years back. I always wanted to build one so went for it (scaled down). Burned great going full tilt, but had too much over-air and riser suck later in the burn. So morphing it into a triple deck/layer/box proved cleaner. Re the sloping ceiling. Imagine you are looking at it side cross section. The front of the fire box is 9" tall. Box is 18" deep, but at the 3/4" mark where the port begins the ceiling is 13.5 " tall. That wedge shape above the fire box is a air pre-heating plenum chamber with a sloping ceramic glass bottom (also the ceiling of firebox) with a narrow slit above the door for secondary air intake, and a thin wide slit 1/4" x 7.5" into the throat/port. It really draws hard during over fueling on heavy reloads, and always draws a bit. But the extra space/volume/height heading towards the rear of the fore box makes for easier air overflow late in the burn cycle. If I only burn a smallish load the tail end can get a bit smokey. So, flat ceiling makes more sense to me.
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Post by patamos on Jun 21, 2019 10:01:54 GMT -8
Thanks for all your efforts on this Peter
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Post by patamos on Jun 21, 2019 8:18:01 GMT -8
Hi Marcios,
It takes me ages to get around to taking and posting pictures. Took 2 years to get that video up. BEst bet is to take a closer look at the video. Also, you can always just set a long trip wire/plate on the firebox ceiling bricks and over hang it into the port however you like. There can be pretty crazy effects from even slightly different shapes and configurations of the plate.
Rectangle port is side to side for simplicity of build. If 4 splits would make a solid ceiling, the rear one is removed. I was also originally going for a fire fountain effect with a 6" heat riser sending the gasses straight up to the cook top and then rolling forward from there (as in no middle shoe box shelf). It burned great on full loads but not as well on smaller loads and coaling. As mentioned the sloping shape of the fire box ceiling (secondary air plenum) is a contributing factor. I would not recommend sloping the ceiling.
I like the Aryan spirals that Trev is producing. And have built other heaters since with that kind of long narrow port. This was just a way of creating a more chaotic mixing of gasses.
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Post by patamos on Jun 14, 2019 19:02:39 GMT -8
all kinds of variables here. check out AGS at amosclayworks.ca
Lars Hellbro pioneered a condensing flue and then another Dane (i think) added a fan on the end of a long run as you have described.
ONe issue is you don't want the fan to over run the residenbcy time of the burn chamber... which varies on load conditions...
best bet is to aim loow for the volume/minute. you pull throuhgh that set up and also have a regular updrafting chimney near by the fire box for easy start ups.
yes, best to bury the flue deeper than 1 foot. Speeding up the flow rate will help draw the heat along.
just a few of many thoughts rattlin round the back of my noggin...
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Post by patamos on Jun 11, 2019 21:34:45 GMT -8
Ya power output is fine. The fast heat from the front upper window is strong. Radiates across the room and gets the 400sq.ft room from below 0c to shirt and sweater zone in 15 minutes. Dimensions of fire box are 18" deep x 9" tall x x7.5" wide. This was so i could slap a bunch of bricks together without cutting. roof is three splits with a space where the last one would go at rear. So the port is 4.5 deep by 7.5 wide. The glass trip wire/plate is about 1.5" wide, hanging out most of the way to the back of the throat. It feels like a good way to mingle turbulence with residency time. The 'roiling eddy' effect First bell chamber (could also be called a spacious downdraft chamber) is about 18" wiode by 20" deep by 30" tall. Then a fast flue run to the left. Then a bell about 1' tall by 20" deep coming back. With the start up bypass i could have coaxed another 1 or more sq.m. ISA without trouble. My favorite part of it all is the sliding door. Saves a whole lotta time/$ on welding up a door and frame... On the matter of roiling eddys: heatkit.com/research/lopez-2015-fire%20baffle.htm
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Post by patamos on Jun 10, 2019 19:35:59 GMT -8
Well, speaking for myself (infer as you may or may not see fit), nothing gets me into more trouble than thinking I know more than I know. In other words, I've had many profound experiences of synergistic 1+1=3. But whether or not we can reach critical mass of that state of flow on a global scale... well, i don't know. Seems less likely though, if we assume we can't.
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Post by patamos on Jun 9, 2019 10:52:37 GMT -8
Hi Helm
One of the beautiful (and rare) qualities of this particular forum is a well-established tone of mutual respect among members.
To my mind, this tone is worth nurturing - whatever the test results ,,,
well being
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Post by patamos on Jun 4, 2019 14:59:17 GMT -8
ya wood ash for sure.
I've also had a terrible time using lincoln fireclay to bond common firebrick. The bricks are so porous they suck the joint dry too fast. If you put one in a bucket of water you can hear it sucking in moisture for a loooooong time. Total sponge...
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Post by patamos on Jun 4, 2019 8:34:37 GMT -8
portland cement with added alumina powder can work in a pinch. Otherwise store-bought 'furnace cement' which is basically sodium silicate with talc powder.
There is also something to be said for 'non-setting' mortars. IN other words, rely on the structure to keep the bricks in place rather than the glue. They are going to want to keep moving over time any way...
my 2c
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Post by patamos on May 30, 2019 21:39:20 GMT -8
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Post by patamos on May 30, 2019 20:04:09 GMT -8
Might be groovin off the steam/moisture moving through the area Looks beautiful
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Post by patamos on May 30, 2019 15:02:26 GMT -8
You might have a bit too much flywheel with 3-4 inches of cob. I've found 2" is ideal for both quick pizzas and lengthy roasting.
but I could be wrong...
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Post by patamos on May 30, 2019 11:46:34 GMT -8
That vertical side air feed bodes well for a sliding door method (see: donkey32.proboards.com/thread/3528/tsr-inverse-sliding-door) in which the size of the air intake can be shaped by the thickness of plaster behind the glass. Although your air trajectory might be more straight in along the sides towards the back of the firebox, whereas with the sliding door the air will be turning 90 degrees and making more turbulence near the front. The nice thing about the old slot at the bottom of the door is/was the concentrated blast of air for fast start up. But that can be managed in other ways.
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