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Post by sinthome on Oct 6, 2016 19:42:59 GMT -8
Hi, I am imagining a rocket and/or masonry stove that could fulfill all the functions of heating and cooking but with bypass valves that would direct the heat to where it is most wanted. This would be a do-it-all approach but without being an all-or-nothing design. I am wondering if this is feasible and if there is any precedent for bypasses used this way.
The stove would feature an air-tight firebox with insulated combustion and secondary air intake for efficient, complete burns. Connected to it would be a number of bypass valves, although I have yet to determine their proper arrangement. The goal would be the following burn options:
1) directly to the chimney for cold starts 2) heat to cook-top, then out the chimney (summertime cooking) 3) heat to cook-top, bell oven/bench heater (wintertime cooking) 4) heat directly into bell oven/bench heater
Any ideas on the best arrangement to properly isolate these different burn styles without reducing the performance of the stove? Thanks!
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Post by satamax on Oct 6, 2016 21:36:39 GMT -8
Sinthome, it's been done to a certain extent. Check Vortex's stove. Matt Walker riserless build. My conversion of a range. Hendrik's build donkey32.proboards.com/post/16159/thread And many others. I have drawn a few in sketchup, to get my ideas sorted too. Tho, i'll make a few comments. I've been searching for the ultimate heater and cookstove for a while now. Basicaly, you don't want to cook with wood inside in the summer. Gas is far more convenient, availlable nearly everywhere, doesn't cost an arm and a leg. And it's not like we gonna run out of it any time soon. If you realy want to cook with wood, a J tube, dedicated for cooking, in an outside kitchen is realy a must. If you want the convenience of gas, but want to be green too. You could do biogas too. Then comes mid season, and heating season cooking. And proper heating. In the few builds i have behind my back, i have noticed one thing. The equilibrium between direct heat and stored heat is verry important. And hard to reach. I wouldn't say i have the right recipe yet. What you describe is possible, no prob. But the complication. I guess after a while, when you are used to it, may be it becomes a reflex. But , imagine the routine. Light the stove, bypass from the cooking plate to the chimney open. , then switch to cooking plate, and bell heating. THen, when the house is boiling hot, switch to bell only. Doable. Another point, the "vanes" they are hard to get without that 20% leakage gap. So you're in to mod or build yours. And then, they are dangerous. If you close the stove too early, you could CO poison yourself. Not an easy way, the path you have chosen.
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kpl
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kpl on Oct 7, 2016 0:52:48 GMT -8
Just a small remark. Sinthome, it's been done to a certain extent. Check Vortex's stove. Matt Walker riserless build. My conversion of a range. Hendrik's build donkey32.proboards.com/post/16159/thread And many others. I have drawn a few in sketchup, to get my ideas sorted too. You are mentioning several builds, which are really not easy to find! I remember reading about several of those, but those really should have been "pinned" at the top of forum. Sometimes thread topic contains something completely different, and particular stove is never called the name which is given to it later by others.
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Post by sinthome on Oct 7, 2016 4:34:56 GMT -8
Satamax, I agree-- simple it is not. And even the perfect design still depends on an attentive operator (and a CO alarm close by). Adding mass to a cookstove doesn't seem that far out of the norm, but I am having trouble visualizing the best way to bypass the cookstove, since it is often built into the top of the riser. This obviously makes it more responsive when one is cooking, but it also means one is obligated keep it hot in order to charge the mass. Is there a design that can bypass the cookstove without compromising the burn performance? Here's a little sketchup drawing I did of a possible layout. I am trying to determine how to make the cooktop still heat up like it is resting on top of the riser, but then fully isolate it with a bypass valve. Do you think something like this would work? s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=01277128456535443800 The firebox is facing the bench, the oven is on the back.
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Post by satamax on Oct 7, 2016 9:45:22 GMT -8
Can't see.
My version of ketchup is too old, 2014 one. And i can't update.
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Post by sinthome on Oct 7, 2016 10:16:36 GMT -8
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Post by satamax on Oct 7, 2016 13:21:29 GMT -8
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Post by sinthome on Oct 7, 2016 14:29:41 GMT -8
Hmm, interesting. I hadn't seen that, thanks. I wonder what was less inspiring about my design? From what I can tell, the layouts are similar except mine adds a heater bench and I am trying to make the cooktop more responsive..
Some constructive criticism of that design, if you don't mind-- I would worry that the oven door handle would get hot from the cook-top and in any case would be less cumbersome to open if it was located on the side (assuming pots and pans on the stove). Also, I don't understand why the opening to the stovepipe is above the inlet to cooktop bell. Shouldn't that be lower so that the hot gases take longer to exit? In any case, I am pondering making the cooking bell a lot shallower, but I wonder if this would somehow constrict the flue gases too much? Ahh, well. I will make a more detailed drawing once I understand the principles a little better. Any advice greatly appreciated.
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Post by satamax on Oct 7, 2016 14:29:45 GMT -8
This is better, add the valves where you want permies.com/t/38889/a/44150/yomegastove2.skp?download_attachment=trueYou know, i'm working with objects. An easy way to look inside, is to select and hide. So you don't even have to move them to draw inside. You can modify them too etc. Once you know what you are doing. I bloody hate undefined drawings, where you move a line, and the whole thing goes wonky. I think a flap in the passage under the cooking plate, on the side of the oven, would close that access to gases. And in Yhomega's old chimney hole, you could fit a metal plate, with another flap, which would close, the access of the gasses to the cooking plate. Obviously, this is somebody elses stove. But working on it could make you grasp sketchup, and give you ideas for your own build. For your flaps, you can draw them on teh side of the stove, with the right dimensions. Make several objects, and then fit them in a group, whhich you would move all together in the actual drawing. It's nearly like in real life.
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Post by sinthome on Oct 7, 2016 14:47:44 GMT -8
Hey, thanks. Yeah, I know sketchup pretty well, actually, I just drew that in five minutes to explain the layout I was envisioning. On more detailed models, yeah you gotta use groups! I will make a more detailed model once I understand the needed stove measurements and calculations. Did you see my comments above? I might have edited it while you were replying. Did yomega ever build it? I worry that it won't heat up as hot as a regular range. Better to have the stovepipe outlet lower than the inlet and even a smaller bell, more of a u-shaped horizontal flue is what I am imagining.. not sure if it will work out though.
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Post by satamax on Oct 7, 2016 15:05:14 GMT -8
Saw your comment. Look inside the latest version. He's gathering the parts.
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Post by patamos on Oct 10, 2016 6:56:13 GMT -8
On the matter of diverting heat from a cook top. Placing slabs of granite (or the like) with ceramic felt support pads over top of the cook top is a simple way of directing more heat into mass harvesting.
I am presently experimenting to determine the best material for this on a vortex i built last summer.
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Post by sinthome on Oct 11, 2016 18:35:46 GMT -8
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Post by satamax on Oct 11, 2016 22:23:28 GMT -8
Can't see your .skp Well, you're in for the brick looks then? I love bricks.
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Post by sinthome on Oct 12, 2016 9:24:01 GMT -8
Oh, it reverted back to the newer file version. Try this one: s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=90548589861096119501Yeah, I like brick and also clean white plaster. This design might have too many valves, maybe I could reduce it to just two. Do you know a good place to buy hardware? How about 100% sealing bypass valves? I can weld and could probably fabricate everything, but I wonder if there isn't a more convenient option. I like cast iron better, too, when it's available.
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