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Post by fishalive12345 on Mar 12, 2024 5:57:23 GMT -8
The exhaust manifold has two exits. The first, shown in the sketch above, goes from the manifold directly into the chimney. The second, not shown in the sketch, goes sideways under the cooktop and down through the mass.
When the first exit is open the chimney heats up quickly making it easy to light the stove.
When the first exit is closed the hot gases are forced to go under the left side of the cooktop and follow a path down through the dense firebrick mass and under the firebox and out into the chimney.
I don't have a clear idea about how to route the hot gases through the mass in a way that will be practical efficient and easy to build.
I will post some sketches to illustrate the problem as soon as I have them.
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Post by Vortex on Mar 13, 2024 2:59:03 GMT -8
Hello Trev and Vortexers, I started planning a vortex stove lookalike a long time ago. I even cast the firebox and afterburner but didn't get much further other than to periodically follow developments on this thread. Last year I installed a 120mm stainless steel chimney liner and made a first attempt with the help of my brother in law at starting to build the stove. The plan is to build a 100x60cm cookstove which is 86cm high. The firebox and chimney on the right and the mass (dense firebricks with smoke path channels) on the left. Originally I planned to include an oven on the left side but abandoned that idea because there isn't enough space. Over time my plan has become more and more similar to Trev's stove. I abandoned the oven idea and have decided to use the firebricks without mortar inside a steel sheet skin held together in a steel frame. I have a number of unresolved questions and Id like to ask for advice about them. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time and trouble to answer. Thanks in particular to Trev and the regular contributors for generously sharing their experience and accumulated expertise. Multiple gold stars to you all. The exhaust manifold has two exits. The first, shown in the sketch above, goes from the manifold directly into the chimney. The second, not shown in the sketch, goes sideways under the cooktop and down through the mass. When the first exit is open the chimney heats up quickly making it easy to light the stove. When the first exit is closed the hot gases are forced to go under the left side of the cooktop and follow a path down through the dense firebrick mass and under the firebox and out into the chimney. I don't have a clear idea about how to route the hot gases through the mass in a way that will be practical efficient and easy to build. I will post some sketches to illustrate the problem as soon as I have them. Am I seeing this picture below correctly? Your outside dimensions are very close to my stove, so you could copy the layout of mine or build the mass as one large bell. Forget putting an oven on the left, it will never be hot enough there, they only work above the firebox. Trev.  |
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Post by hunter on Apr 1, 2024 13:51:25 GMT -8
Took me half of the holidays to read the whole thread, 93 pages... But it was worth it. Awesome stuff. Thank you! I'm going to give it a try.
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Post by hunter on Apr 3, 2024 9:01:05 GMT -8
Experiences and opinions about different vermiculite boards for afterburner and shelf?
-Maximum service temperatures are almost always at least 1100°C and the "Rolls Royce" SkamoSteel VIP 12HF has 1250°C. Is 1100°C enough?
-Bulk density varies from 600 to 1400kg/m3 and this seems to correlate most to the price. How dense it actually needs to be up there?
-Standard thicknesses are 20, 25 and 30mm, but the price differences between these are insignificant. Is thicker or thinner less likely to crack in our application?
In Europe Skamol(Denmark) and Thermax(Germany?) are popular brands. But at least here where I live dealers seem to store only less dense boards, 600kg/m3 or so. Any tips?
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Post by anaturalwineaffair on Apr 13, 2024 21:54:04 GMT -8
Hi Everyone, sorry I am new here and I was brought here by This Vimeo Video.
I have a little doubt... I never or saw a vortex stove but I had traditional stoves in the past in the mountains in italy.
How do you deal with the soot of the afterburn, how do you clean it if it is made in bricks?
I want to plan to design one but I am not sure I fully understand the concept.
Cheers,
and thanks for the help
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Post by Vortex on Apr 13, 2024 23:03:59 GMT -8
Hi and welcome to the forum.
It burns clean so there is no soot in the afterburner. The afterburner has to be made of insulating refractory materials to work correctly though.
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Post by Vortex on Apr 13, 2024 23:22:07 GMT -8
Experiences and opinions about different vermiculite boards for afterburner and shelf? -Maximum service temperatures are almost always at least 1100°C and the "Rolls Royce" SkamoSteel VIP 12HF has 1250°C. Is 1100°C enough? -Bulk density varies from 600 to 1400kg/m3 and this seems to correlate most to the price. How dense it actually needs to be up there? -Standard thicknesses are 20, 25 and 30mm, but the price differences between these are insignificant. Is thicker or thinner less likely to crack in our application? In Europe Skamol(Denmark) and Thermax(Germany?) are popular brands. But at least here where I live dealers seem to store only less dense boards, 600kg/m3 or so. Any tips? (answered this question by email, but copying my reply here for completeness) The only vermiculite board I've used is this one: dineensales.com/downloads/dinboardSheet.pdfIt's 20mm thick. I recently got hold of a 25mm thick Skamol board but haven't tried it out yet. |
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Post by anaturalwineaffair on Apr 14, 2024 2:58:13 GMT -8
Thank you so much. Does it mean that it uses less wood as well? I see that you have done the door yourself, are there doors that you know are pre-made?
Apart from this forum, that I am slowly reading, where can I find informations regarding this?
Thank you in advance
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Post by martyn on Apr 14, 2024 5:03:15 GMT -8
There are two main english speaking forums, this one and , permies.com/f/260/rocket-mass-heaters both forums are loaded with thousands of post but neither are very active nowadays! Only this forum specialises in the vortex stove. However there are also numerous youtube channels that feature the vortex stove, on my own channel there are lots of videos but, they are mainly about testing the 4” version to be used as a space heater and cook top. I suggest you just take your time and read this thread…… |
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Post by marcios on May 9, 2024 13:46:32 GMT -8
I decided that before doing any more top chamber experiments I wanted to remove all the unused secondary air system and return the afterburner back to the full 6" system size (I had reduced it to 5.5" when I installed the secondary air). Everything else would then be back as per the skp file, and I could then be sure the expanded top chamber (as suggested by martyn ) will be compatible with the rest of the basic 2021b skp file design. It took me the whole day Sunday to remove the top chamber, afterburner and secondary air system, then rebuild it all as it was previously, but with the new expanded top chamber at 1.5 SA:V. (60mm x 295mm = 17700mm2 (1 csa). 295mm + 60mm + 295mm + 60mm = 710mm / 471.3mm = 1.50 SA:V). The burn was almost perfect except for slightly too much pull on the right side of the vortex, so this morning I removed the vermiculite board on the right side (like jonasp did on his), and the burn was perfect. This gives a lot more flexibility in the design of the top chamber.   |
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Post by marcios on May 9, 2024 13:49:23 GMT -8
Hi Trev,
What dimensions did you keep for the top chamber?
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Post by Vortex on May 11, 2024 5:05:18 GMT -8
Expanded top chamber was: 295 x 60, about 500 deep (towards the top of the pic). Exit was 1 CSA (top left of the pic)  Trev |
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Post by marcios on May 19, 2024 5:14:43 GMT -8
Would this the best top chamber setup for your stove so far?
Do you plan to check with testo?
I've already finished the previous "bench" (to be extended later), the chimney and the frame.
Starting to assemble the core!
Do you use ceramic fiber to seal the top plate?
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Post by Vortex on May 19, 2024 8:31:38 GMT -8
Hi Marcios, This top chamber setup was as good as the previous for combustion, but shortened the gas path a bit, my mass is tiny so I need to maximize the length of the gas path in it for maximum heat extraction, so I reverted back to the original layout. I use the flat sticky backed 'fire rope' to seal the hotplates- 20mm wide x 2mm thick.
Would love to see some pictures of your construction.
Trev
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Post by martyn on May 19, 2024 11:16:05 GMT -8
I am back experimenting at the moment, in my own case. based on the 4” design, which is largely based on hot plate cooking.
The large volume top box makes a huge difference for my purpose, not only offering easy and fast start up but controlling the burn, evening out the heat across the hot plate.
I have gone up to 300mm high but 200mm seems to work well so far. However I am only just beginning the test!
I have also been testing different sources of secondary air but my main experiments are based around the later stages of the burn and either removing the coals or burning them off as quick as possible.
I made a removable tray that fits in the bottom of the fire box and is loaded in the normal way but it can be lifted to a higher position about mid way up and is fed air from underneath. Just by moving the tray up 100mm keeps the vortex going for another 20 minutes.
My main bugbear has always been a smoky viewing glass at the beginning and end of the burn so I will be working on that aspect too….
I have taken some video, not in huge detail so far but I will publish my results when ready……
Marcios, I would also like to see some pictures (or video) of your design?
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