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Post by Vortex on Oct 21, 2023 4:53:40 GMT -8
Thanks, Trev. Maybe I missed you saying, but why were you putting vermiculite board on the firebox sides? Hi Karl, I initially placed the vermiculite boards on the sides just to reduce the size of the firebox, as all the increases in efficiency over the development of this stove means its now complete overkill for my small house. The last couple of winters I've lived with the house door open most evenings, as otherwise I cant sleep at night because it's too hot. I think the insulation on the firebox sides also helps when having smaller fires though. Trev |
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Post by Lucian on Oct 24, 2023 4:10:27 GMT -8
Thanks, Trev. Maybe I missed you saying, but why were you putting vermiculite board on the firebox sides? Hi Karl, I initially placed the vermiculite boards on the sides just to reduce the size of the firebox, as all the increases in efficiency over the development of this stove means its now complete overkill for my small house. The last couple of winters I've lived with the house door open most evenings, as otherwise I cant sleep at night because it's too hot. I think the insulation on the firebox sides also helps when having smaller fires though. Trev I wonder if these vermiculite boards on the sides cause more/faster gasification inside the firebox, too much maybe for the afterburner to cope with? |
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aleks
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Post by aleks on Oct 25, 2023 0:44:55 GMT -8
Hi Trev and others,
I hope everyone is well. I'm in the last stages of building our stove and am very excited to see how it will work in practice. Will be posting some pictures of the proces later this week.
Just one quick question in the meanwhile: the insulation is only meant for the firebox right? No need to insulate the secondary burn chamber or the afterburner?
Thanks for a quick remark on this.
Kindly,
Alexander
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Post by Vortex on Oct 25, 2023 2:38:31 GMT -8
Hi Karl, I initially placed the vermiculite boards on the sides just to reduce the size of the firebox, as all the increases in efficiency over the development of this stove means its now complete overkill for my small house. The last couple of winters I've lived with the house door open most evenings, as otherwise I cant sleep at night because it's too hot. I think the insulation on the firebox sides also helps when having smaller fires though. Trev I wonder if these vermiculite boards on the sides cause more/faster gasification inside the firebox, too much maybe for the afterburner to cope with? I made these changes while running the testo on every burn, there was no negative effect on the test results, but it enabled me to run smaller loads without a reduction in efficiency, but I'm not sure if that was because of a smaller firebox, or the insulated sides or both. |
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Post by Vortex on Oct 25, 2023 2:54:05 GMT -8
Hi Trev and others, I hope everyone is well. I'm in the last stages of building our stove and am very excited to see how it will work in practice. Will be posting some pictures of the process later this week. Just one quick question in the meanwhile: the insulation is only meant for the firebox right? No need to insulate the secondary burn chamber or the afterburner? Thanks for a quick remark on this. Kindly, Alexander Hi Alexander, depends on which version you're building, the original like jojohannes built had no insulation on the firebox or secondary burn chamber. If you're building the latest version with the vortex afterburner then the whole afterburner is made from insulating refractories. Look forward to seeing those pictures. Trev |
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aleks
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Post by aleks on Oct 26, 2023 10:01:56 GMT -8
(I'm hoping the pictures will load, i'm trying to embed them trough google drive, in case you can't see them, feel free to give me a tip on how to share these images...)
So today Jojohannes passed by and we ran some test of the stove which is not yet performing optimally. Luckily the weather is still mild, and we have some time to tweak things. The problem is: we are lacking draft in the stove which results in smoke coming from all possible little cracks it can come trough.
The overall draft in the chimney is fine however, we checked by making a small fire in the lower part of the chimney and it drafted sweetly with a rocket stove type sound.
But in the stove we are lacking draft
In case the pictures aren't showing: let me describe what i did. I copied the design from the sketchup for the stove but I tried to connect it to a 15 cm pipe instead of a construction with firebricks wich is what I think patamos suggested if I understood him correctly. However, I'm realising now that the 15 cm diameter pipe is something else then a 15 by 15 square pipe. Which would be 176 cm2 vs 225 cm2 in surface. In practice the opening is in any case 15 x 12,5 187,5 cm2. So overall I am confused regarding what to do here.
One thing that is also complicating is that the opening in the chimney is 15 by 11. so 165. I can tried to open it and make it bigger, but it's a bit hard to reach.
Jojohannes mentioned that there might be a solution to use, instead of a 15 cm pipe to go down an open space made by bricks that could be as wide as the stove and then get the pipe going from the ground level.
Or should I just ditch the whole pipe system and start building with bricks? I was a bit unclear on how to do that properly. But we have some firebricks lying around, so I can give it a try...
Thanks for your help and attention,
kindly,
Alexander
PS regarding isolation of the burn chamber and afterburner, these are insulating firebricks we used
PPS the google drive embed seems to have failed, and attachement function tells me the file is too big even after i downsized it to 300 Kb..)
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Post by Vortex on Oct 27, 2023 1:21:37 GMT -8
I dont use google but if you can send me the pictures by the email address I PM'd you then I can upload them here for you.
It's hard to say without seeing the pictures, but jojohannes' idea sounds a better solution than the metal pipe connecting the stove to the mass.
Is the mass still damp, that would affect it a lot and as your chimney and stove sounds OK it's the most likely cause.
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Post by Vortex on Oct 27, 2023 6:30:05 GMT -8
Hi Alexander, Your pictures are below. I didn't realise you were making it with a pipe going down the whole height of the stove into the bench. Hot gasses don't want to do that, would be much better to build a brick bell next to the stove in between the stove and bench, and a bypass for lighting. Does the pipe open into the bench or is the bench just built around the pipe? Those 90* and 180* bends add a lot of resistance to flow, better if you make the turns bigger.    Trev |
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aleks
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Post by aleks on Oct 27, 2023 9:26:20 GMT -8
Hi Trev,
Thanks for your comments Trev, your super supportive.
It feels a bit stupid to have done it in this way, but i guess we were thinking mostly about how we wanted the bench to look like..
so let's adapt and overcome.
I'm doubting now whereas I should change strategy and just build a batterybox next to the stove according to the original designs you have posted. I will have the exhaust pipe leave the battery box in a 45 degree angle have it move upward diagonally toward the chimney and have it enter the chimney in another 45. I can build a cob wall / cupboard around it to make it less ugly and also function as an extra heat storage. On the left side of the battery box I will make an adapted bench out of cob as well. As we don't have a couch this is essential for my partner ;-)
The other option is to try the current option, but with the bell next to stove. although I'm not sure if it will work. because it will still be hard to get rid of the 180 in the current setup.
In either case I will put in the bypass..
If you have any thoughts on which option might be preferably I will happily take them as guidance.
Thanks,
Alexander
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Post by firebob on Oct 28, 2023 4:21:08 GMT -8
Hi everybody !
I'm new on this forum, i just finish reading this thread and i'm really impressed by the research work who as been done here.
Thank you all for that incredible work.
I was looking for ideas to design a rocket stove type dedicated to cook and heat a 22sqmeter cabin and i really like the vortex stove design.
I am thinking to add a little thermal battery similar to the one in Trev's stove as i am very limited by space.
I also would like to add a heating water system, i was thinking to put a cooper wire wrapped around the part of the chimney just above the stove and to isolate this part of the chimney but i'm afraid that it cool down the chimney too much.
(Sorry for my bad english, i'm french and im not use to write in english.)
Robin
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Post by Vortex on Oct 28, 2023 9:53:04 GMT -8
Hi Trev, Thanks for your comments Trev, your super supportive. It feels a bit stupid to have done it in this way, but i guess we were thinking mostly about how we wanted the bench to look like.. so let's adapt and overcome. I'm doubting now whereas I should change strategy and just build a batterybox next to the stove according to the original designs you have posted. I will have the exhaust pipe leave the battery box in a 45 degree angle have it move upward diagonally toward the chimney and have it enter the chimney in another 45. I can build a cob wall / cupboard around it to make it less ugly and also function as an extra heat storage. On the left side of the battery box I will make an adapted bench out of cob as well. As we don't have a couch this is essential for my partner ;-) The other option is to try the current option, but with the bell next to stove. although I'm not sure if it will work. because it will still be hard to get rid of the 180 in the current setup. In either case I will put in the bypass.. If you have any thoughts on which option might be preferably I will happily take them as guidance. Thanks, Alexander Hi Alexander, I would go for the first option above, you might get the second option to work but I doubt it will ever be as good. Trev |
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Post by Vortex on Oct 28, 2023 10:14:11 GMT -8
Hi everybody ! I'm new on this forum, i just finish reading this thread and i'm really impressed by the research work who as been done here. Thank you all for that incredible work. I was looking for ideas to design a rocket stove type dedicated to cook and heat a 22sqmeter cabin and i really like the vortex stove design. I am thinking to add a little thermal battery similar to the one in Trev's stove as i am very limited by space. I also would like to add a heating water system, i was thinking to put a cooper wire wrapped around the part of the chimney just above the stove and to isolate this part of the chimney but i'm afraid that it cool down the chimney too much. (Sorry for my bad english, i'm french and im not use to write in english.) Robin Hi Robin, Your English is fine, I wouldn't have known it wasn't your first language if you hadn't said. What is the hot water to be used for? I don't know if it would affect the chimney draw at all, especially if it was insulated over the pipes, the first meter of mine is single skin and the convective heat loss probably wouldn't be a lot different. Don't know how successful it would be at heating the water though, as the chimney on mine only gets up to about 120C when the stove is running full. Stove is in the coaling phase as I write this and the internal chimney temp 70cm above the top of the stove is only 40C. Internal mass inside the battery is around 100C. My cabin is 50 square meters, plus about 30 in the mezzanine bedroom in the roof space, so a 5 inch. 125mm should be plenty for you. Let us know how it goes. Trev |
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Post by firebob on Oct 28, 2023 12:03:37 GMT -8
Thank you for your answer Trev.
I will use the hot water for (quick) shower and wash the dishes.
I'm going to make drawings and plans soon, i will of course post these here.
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aleks
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Post by aleks on Oct 29, 2023 1:02:00 GMT -8
Hi Trev, Thanks for your comments Trev, your super supportive. It feels a bit stupid to have done it in this way, but i guess we were thinking mostly about how we wanted the bench to look like.. so let's adapt and overcome. I'm doubting now whereas I should change strategy and just build a batterybox next to the stove according to the original designs you have posted. I will have the exhaust pipe leave the battery box in a 45 degree angle have it move upward diagonally toward the chimney and have it enter the chimney in another 45. I can build a cob wall / cupboard around it to make it less ugly and also function as an extra heat storage. On the left side of the battery box I will make an adapted bench out of cob as well. As we don't have a couch this is essential for my partner ;-) The other option is to try the current option, but with the bell next to stove. although I'm not sure if it will work. because it will still be hard to get rid of the 180 in the current setup. In either case I will put in the bypass.. If you have any thoughts on which option might be preferably I will happily take them as guidance. Thanks, Alexander Hi Alexander, I would go for the first option above, you might get the second option to work but I doubt it will ever be as good. Trev Hi Trev, Ok will do so, we found a good way to incorporate the battery box in the overall design. Best to rely on the designs on the front page right? Thanks again, Alexander |
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Post by Vortex on Oct 29, 2023 5:16:35 GMT -8
Hi Alexander, The latest improved battery design starts on page 20: donkey32.proboards.com/post/23834/thread There are also some pictures of it's construction on this post: donkey32.proboards.com/post/29081/thread . If that's not possible for you then the original design or just large bell will work OK. Your idea for hot water would probably be sufficient for quick shower or washing up. I have lots of kettles on top the stove that I use for dishes and washing machine, but I like long hot showers so have an old caravan gas instantaneous water heater for that  Trev |
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