Vortex Stove

[Vortex]

May 8, 2020 13:03:30 GMT -8 cork said:

Hi Trev,
James here, my stove is still in the making. While the essence is the same as yours as I have had to fit it into an inglenook so it has a different footprint. It is deeper and narrower with a dog leg. The exit port in the top chamber is above the back of the fire box I hope this will not affect it too much. Also I remember you noting that your flue temperature was a little high at 150 oC. With the dog leg the mass on my stove is adjustable so I was wondering how much to add. The path for gasses will have less turns with less restriction but a longer distance to travel. I could email you a couple of photos as I have no idea how to post them here.

Hi James, Sure, send some photos and I'll put them on the thread if that's OK.
Pictures are a lot easier to understand, descriptions are too easily misunderstood.
Trev

[Vortex]

May 9, 2020 1:27:58 GMT -8 Pablo Crespo said:

Hello from the north of Spain. I would like to know if anyone has results on how magnetite bricks behave in the firebox. I wanted to build the entire core and channels of a masonry kitchen with them.

I don't know how long they would last in the firebox. I've heard of people using them for the floor of pizza ovens without any problems. The ones in my mass are still in perfect condition.

[Vortex]

cork said:

I hope you can make sense of it. The fourth photo is the manifold with insulated baffle on top. The first is the manifold connected to the chimney surrounded by insulation. The third shows layout. The second a proposed plan of the dog leg, I plan to have a layer of flat storage heater bricks then a flow and return passage as shown below. The floor between passages can be either steel and/or storage heater bricks and roof of steel maybe with more storage bricks on top.. Storage bricks dry stacked and outside bricks clay/sand mortared. Looking at your recent flue temperatures I think this may too much for the stove what do you think? I was also thinking of staggering the storage bricks in front for more rapid heat conduction with bigger gaps at the cooler end.

Hi James,

Looking great, nice work

I don't know if you were planning to or not but I would insulate your bench from the floor and walls if at all possible - like you have in the inglenook.

My flue temps are a bit high so you should be able to have a bit more mass. I have approx 1.1 tons total.

If you use steel in the bench make sure it has room for expansion otherwise it can push it apart. I did one using old kitchen floor tiles as the floor between passages which worked out OK, but I would use the SH bricks if you have enough.

[Jura]

May 9, 2020 3:03:30 GMT -8 Pablo Crespo said:

Hello from the north of Spain. I would like to know if the water exchanger shown in the image is for domestic water or for a central radiator stove. In Spain, stoves of this type manufactured in the Lacunza or Hergon type, the heat exchanger for water is located in the firebox and generates a lot of creosote and bad combustion. Do you know if it is possible to put the exchanger somewhere else to avoid cold burning in the firebox and to be able to heat water for central heating?

Thank you

Hola Pablo!

As to your question:

The heat exchanger is not placed in the firebox (placing a heat exchanger in a firebox shall be penalized ).
It is situated out of the firebox on the flue gases way to a chimney. In fact it was added due to whim.
As there is 2 m³ buffer tank which is to collect energy from 3 sources (rocket stove, fireplace, solar).
(and 2 free inlets ready to be connected to any more source that may turn out to be available (be it cold fusion unit or a bicycle powered immerse heater or anything else one may come up with).

There is not too much condensation supposed to happen as it will be fed with a warm circulating water (raspberry pi based controller unit)

I can not give you any more info as teh place was supposed to be inhabited from today .. but due to teh COVID  restriction the place's "owner"  have to stay in Norway.. so.. 

BTW,  Trev I thought I had sent this photo to you as a PM and now I see it being an entry in your thread.  maybe you shall delete it ?

Pablo maybe if you have more question you could  PM  it to me so a we would not spam this thread?
 

[cork]

I had been planning to insulate the walls but anxious about using calcium silicate boards in the floor with point loading around the perimeter .

[Vortex]

I'd use vermiculite board there I think.

[Pablo Crespo]

May 9, 2020 8:27:18 GMT -8 Vortex said:

May 9, 2020 1:27:58 GMT -8 Pablo Crespo said:

Hello from the north of Spain. I would like to know if anyone has results on how magnetite bricks behave in the firebox. I wanted to build the entire core and channels of a masonry kitchen with them.

I don't know how long they would last in the firebox. I've heard of people using them for the floor of pizza ovens without any problems. The ones in my mass are still in perfect condition.

Thanks. 

I understand that you think that 40% alumina are more appropriate, right?

[cork]

Did a pressure test with the silicate board and have satisfied myself that it will be ok in the floor which will fit much easier than the vermiculite. I am also considering casting a lid above the storage heater bricks on the bench. Using cement fondu seems to require special aggregate for high temps so it may be just as cost effective to use refractory casting mix .

[Vortex]

This is the cheapest place I've found for the castable here: www.pizzaovens4u.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=14

You'd probably get away with fondue, local sand and chicken wire for the bench tops, as it's all alumina-silicate rock around here. I tested out some homemade firebricks in the rear of the firebox made of fondue, local sand and clay. They were still going strong after 2 seasons when I dismantled the old stove.

Alternatively I have a ton of broken fired clay roof tiles that was put through a crusher. You're welcome to some of that, but I've sieved out and used everything 3mm and below so you'd probably need to pound it down smaller and re-screen it, as most of what's left now is gravel sized. It works really well with the fondue. I've cast firebox parts out of that mix that have been in use now for 3 years.

[cork]

If the fondu/sand mix will last in a firebox it will surely be ok on a bench. I suppose the chicken wire will help to keep it intact but will be too weak to overly stress the concrete (expansion/contraction with heat). Thanks for the offer of the fire clay rubble and I would be down to take you up on it only for the travel regulations at moment. James.

[Vortex]

I've always used the cheapest lightest grade chicken wire which is very thin, never had any problems with it. I used it in the firebox roof of my old stove, that did 10 years and was still in one piece when I dismantled it. The grog will still be here if you want some when the restrictions ease up.

[marcios]

Hi Trev,
Coming back here, happy to see the great progress of the fine calibrations.
Congratulations!

[Vortex]

My summer stove project this year was to build a 4 inch Vortex stove to see how well it behaves compared to the 6 inch.

All dimensions are scaled times 0.666 of the 6" / 150mm stove.











4 clips of video from the startup, middle and end of the first burn:



I was surprised by how well it worked, it's as good as if not better than the 6 inch. Only major difference I've noticed so far is that it needs proportionately more air to keep the double vortex in the afterburner.

So far I haven't installed the exit port in the top chamber, or run the testo on it.

[martyn]

Fantastic results! The 4” model really is a small powerhouse.
Are you using a 4” chimney ?

[Vortex]

Well spotted Martyn, I thought I had a length of 4" pipe around but couldn't find it so used a bit of 125mm / 4-15/16". It ran for an hour and a half on that load of splits. Shame the sound isn't working on my camera as that little 4 incher has a roar like a blowtorch.