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Post by drooster on Nov 9, 2016 11:01:30 GMT -8
Hi Vortex : the sidewinder looks irrelevant as it is a vertical rocket ... moved to the side.
Your own stove and the very similar Walker's is more like what I envision, but I don't think Peter has done any tests on such setups with a view to getting a very high temperature into the upper part for secondary burn.
I am imagining a batch box lower with a rising slot but the part above that doubling back on itself and made of very insulative stuff to reach high temp quickly.
I notice your vortex and walker's to use the same casting substance for the firebox and the 'riser' area : I just see some possibility of a less tough but hotter part above.
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Post by Vortex on Nov 9, 2016 15:35:15 GMT -8
Hi Drooster, My original Vortex stove has no insulating refractory parts, it's all dense firebrick, the later ones I built are all dense cast refractory fireboxes. Matt's whole core is insulating refractory brick, in his last video he said it doesn't work if you make it out of dense.
Your idea sounds like it should be fairly easy to make up a test model, are you going to try it out?
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Post by drooster on Nov 10, 2016 7:32:52 GMT -8
It'll be next year when I begin, I'm just asking around about the concept. You sound like you think it could work ... in principle.
Testing will be not very precise as I won't have any previous experience to compare stuff with.
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Post by Vortex on Nov 10, 2016 9:52:53 GMT -8
There's plenty of videos of batch boxes and all the variants in action so that should give you something for comparison.
Your idea sounds like it should work, in principle it's not that different to the others I mentioned, but the only way to know for sure is to try it out. If you use insulating firebrick it seems to be a lot more forgiving of the design.
Let us know how it goes.
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kpl
New Member
Posts: 47 
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Post by kpl on Nov 11, 2016 1:51:37 GMT -8
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Post by drooster on Nov 11, 2016 10:10:18 GMT -8
Thanks for commenting Vortex : I have some questions about the shape of the "riser" and maybe for Peter and Walker too.
I'll be using a cast insulating refractory for the walls of my "riser' and beyond them loose perlite for max insulation, but don't know whether a flatter, squarer or rounder cross-section of my "riser" will be best.
Your vortex is made all of denser refractory so strong but perhaps not maxing out the temps in the secondary burn.
Walker's is IFB but all squares and corners : high temp but slowish flow.
Peter vdB has a round or roundish straight riser with a feed gap and vortices : might not be relevant to my design but there's a lot of proper testing info.
F Styles (rocket MAG stove) has an intuitive feel for these devices but I get the feeling he isn't being consulted properly : I'll use some ideas from his build.
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Post by Vortex on Nov 11, 2016 10:19:29 GMT -8
Hey kpl, Thanks for posting that. As you say there's quite a few similarities until they throw the heat out the chimney. The fact they're getting better efficiency with a back boiler just shows how much heat is going straight up the chimney without it. I wonder why they don't add a contraflow and some mass... Their secondary air system is using different materials but is basically the same as I have in mind. |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 11, 2016 11:21:48 GMT -8
Thanks for commenting Vortex : I have some questions about the shape of the "riser" and maybe for Peter and Walker too. I'll be using a cast insulating refractory for the walls of my "riser' and beyond them loose perlite for max insulation, but don't know whether a flatter, squarer or rounder cross-section of my "riser" will be best. Your vortex is made all of denser refractory so strong but perhaps not maxing out the temps in the secondary burn. Walker's is IFB but all squares and corners : high temp but slowish flow. Peter vdB has a round or roundish straight riser with a feed gap and vortices : might not be relevant to my design but there's a lot of proper testing info. F Styles (rocket MAG stove) has an intuitive feel for these devices but I get the feeling he isn't being consulted properly : I'll use some ideas from his build. If you have a yard where you can mess about outside, I'd really recommend getting a pile of firebricks and experiment. I'm not a batchbox builder, but from what I've read round risers seem to be the most effective at mixing the gases behind the port. After that maybe you could transition into a square or flatter shape where it goes horizontal over the top of the firebox? You should create a new thread for your stove idea, you'd probably get more responses and it'd stop this one going off topic. I agree, I think the Vortex stove could benefit from an insulated secondary burn chamber above the firebox, it's high on my list of stuff to try out on my new test-bed model. F Styles' rocket MAG stove is my favorite Vertical Batch 'Cross Flow' type rocket stove, but I'm a devout fire-gazer so it wouldn't suit me. |
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Post by drooster on Nov 11, 2016 13:44:33 GMT -8
..." it'd stop this one going off topic."
If all goes to plan my own stove will be either your Vortex with an insulated upper area creating higher temps, or a Walker with a lower firebox of heavier stuff.
The reason I'm posting in your Vortex thread is the closeness of your design with what's currently in my head.
In this forum new threads seem not so ... popular.
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Post by Vortex on Nov 11, 2016 15:38:09 GMT -8
My apologies Drooster, I misunderstood. In that case you're welcome to keep it here. I am imagining a batch box lower with a rising slot but the part above that doubling back on itself and made of very insulative stuff to reach high temp quickly. From what you said above I imagined you were wanting to build a Batchbox with the rear port, and some kind of riser into a secondary burn chamber above the firebox. Can you better explain what you meant? |
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Post by drooster on Nov 12, 2016 13:59:29 GMT -8
The rear port (vertical, and it's dimensions) from a batchbox is only applicable to creating vortices into a roundish proper riser, to optimise mixing in the riser. I've seen a LOT of rocketish builds using exactly that configuration and then missing the whole point by using a short riser, or uninsulated riser : I see the port as a tweaking once the whole batchbox and riser setup is operating correctly as a batch rocket. I'm not having a vertical riser, I'm aiming to insulate a burn tunnel above the firebox which will probably come forward from the back and then back over again, or swirl around in a spiral ... maybe. I want some hints on the cross-section shape of this upper burn tunnel, but if this is early days I guess I'll find out  I will definitely post my results. |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 13, 2016 11:08:33 GMT -8
That sounds very much like what I'm planning. I'll get some rough drawings up in the next few days.
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Post by Edna on Nov 13, 2016 23:51:43 GMT -8
Where did you source your cast iron doors? I thought it would be easy to buy replacement doors for a wood burning stove to use on my masonry heater, but I'm getting a lot of pushback!
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Post by Vortex on Nov 14, 2016 15:16:04 GMT -8
Hi Edna, The doors are steel not cast iron, I made them myself. If you go to page 11 of this thread you can see the picture of them being made.
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Post by 1967gto on Nov 16, 2016 8:50:11 GMT -8
Hi Vortex,
How are you attaching those doors?
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