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Post by Vortex on Nov 4, 2016 10:07:17 GMT -8
Hi ilpiccolo, Welcome to the forum. What is the oval part in the top of the firebox roof for - are you trying to make a little pizza oven dome there?  If so I don't think it will cause any problems. The big front primary air port is essential. I also use air up through the ashbox to the base of the fire, this seems to work well when it's gasifying. I think heated secondary air coming in through holes in the firebox roof and across the edge of the throat would be good, but no one has really tried it out on this stove yet. I'm just about to start building a new test-bed version of my stove, and this is one of the things I want to experiment with on it. I'm also working on trying to make the stove easier to build, but I'll post more on this later. The forum has no room left for uploading files so you have to host them somewhere else and link to them, but you seem to have managed it OK. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2016 12:35:14 GMT -8
OFF TOPIC I could not resist " PIZZA - MANDOLINO AND MAFIA " ....  ... sorry .. i'm italian  "Ma in effetti cosa è quell'ovale ? " translate >>> But in fact what is the oval? hello AG filwifi |
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Post by ilpiccolo on Nov 5, 2016 9:33:45 GMT -8
Trev thanks for the welcome and for having given birth to the vortex stove. I like pizza dome. Filwifi thanks for the welcome. hear it from an Italian is not offensive! the dome pizza should, hopefully, slow down and mix the gas with the preheated air and at the same time to "reflect" the heat in the middle of the fire ... I hope too? "The big front primary air port is essential." of course ... at least at the start and for the first hour ... the pizza dome and the air intake preheated I think hoping to improve or better manage the gasification (improving something that is due to a balanced empirical attracts me ). I prepare to do a lot of tests: for this I would like to equip both the preheated air inlet that the one on the door before the throat with something that allows me to change the piece trying various distances and shapes. or maybe I'm lucky as Trev and I will find the perfect balance on the first try! (Trev thanks again for sharing all this) |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 5, 2016 15:21:53 GMT -8
I like pizza dome. the dome pizza should, hopefully, slow down and mix the gas with the preheated air and at the same time to "reflect" the heat in the middle of the fire ... I hope too? Interesting idea, ilpiccolo. Something else for me to try out Part of the new easier build idea I'm playing with, includes having secondary air coming in through the right-hand side of the stove just above the top of the firebox, so the incoming air is heated in between a dense and an insulating refractory slab. I can make channels and holes in various places over the roof of the firebox to see how the secondary air in different places affects the gasification. |
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Post by ilpiccolo on Nov 6, 2016 6:14:28 GMT -8
"I can make channels and holes in various places over the roof of the firebox to see how the secondary air in different places affects the gasification."  I have two questions on the air preheated roof. first: in the channel preheater the hottest spot at the highest point tends to hinder the natural ascending hot air motion (I do fear for slowing the air suction cap). maybe if the air entered between the middle and the roof Suck it would be less hindered? the second doubt I came covering your video on gasification: it seems to be the hot roof ignite the gas when they are approaching. if so I'm not sure that removing heat to the roof to heat the air best gasification ...although this is true for any other part of the firebox with the vortex. moreover we use the accumulated heat to gasify and this works! but if we heat the air it decreases the accumulated heat for gasification. (that's why I called perfect balance empirical). the ideal would be to leave all the accumulated heat for the gasification and heat the air through a gap in the flue but do not know how practical achieve it This is in my brain... |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 6, 2016 15:54:53 GMT -8
Good questions, ipiccolo.
The honest answer is I don't know. I think the amount of secondary will be too small to have any real effect on the ascending hot gases or on the gasification, but the only way to know for sure is to try it and see.
The new version I'm building will have a complete gas-tight metal frame box, so the refractory bricks and casts can be dry stacked inside. This I hope will make for quick easy tests and experiments to answer questions like that.
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Post by ilpiccolo on Nov 7, 2016 1:13:04 GMT -8
Good questions, ipiccolo. The honest answer is I don't know. I think the amount of secondary will be too small to have any real effect on the ascending hot gases or on the gasification, but the only way to know for sure is to try it and see. The new version I'm building will have a complete gas-tight metal frame box, so the refractory bricks and casts can be dry stacked inside. This I hope will make for quick easy tests and experiments to answer questions like that. a moment ... I do not think disorders gasification but only the suction of fresh air and currents inside the heating pipe. to be clear: if I put a pipe for the air to heat up in the vertical flow should be from the bottom up simply because the warmer air goes high. if I wanted the hot air outlet at the bottom I still struggle with these updrafts (do not say it's impossible to do it ... definitely a fan you would not have these thoughts-there are already commercial devices that do this with the remote control to manage the flames - but no fan you have to remember it) maybe things that bother in theory in the real world are negligible! other thoughts / questions for anyone with a vortex: no post-combustion in contact with the metal plate over the troat (rocket style) once it reaches the temperature? Patamos have you noticed differences in behavior between the version with the metal plate and the one with the glass ceramic. other question you were able to see how they move the gas after the throat? (Congratulations! You are a good "developer" Vortex and make beautiful stoves). sorry for the many questions and for English |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 7, 2016 3:06:17 GMT -8
Sorry ilpiccolo, I misunderstood the question. I realise it's difficult when English is not your first language. You're doing OK.
There are a couple of leaking joints in between the firebricks in the top of the back of my stove, and when it's gasifying I can see little jets of golden flame like gas torches coming in from them.
They don't leak fumes into the room because The barometric pressure inside the stove is always lower than outside, so it's not necessary to have a vertical heated pipe to make the air rise through it into the stove.
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Post by ilpiccolo on Nov 7, 2016 6:26:50 GMT -8
They don't leak fumes into the room because The barometric pressure inside the stove is always lower than outside, so it's not necessary to have a vertical heated pipe to make the air rise through it into the stove. OK this solves my doubt. thank you . About to my question on the post combustion what I would like to understand is what happens in the throat / metal plate (in the videos you always sees the center of the fire and did not know whether it is possible to film the throat / metal plate). in gasification mode ignition of gas increases in the throat or you see only the burnt gases from the roof/door that are conveyed? thanks for your patience |
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Post by Vortex on Nov 7, 2016 11:14:52 GMT -8
If I lay on the floor in front of the stove I can just about see up into the throat. When it's gasifying there are small flames licking up around it, but I can't see what's happening under the hot-plate at all.
The idea I want to try out on the new stove model is to have a secondary burn chamber above the firebox made of insulating refractory. The hot flue gases will come out under the back of the hot-plate and move towards the front (the opposite direction to the existing layout).
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Post by ilpiccolo on Nov 8, 2016 3:27:01 GMT -8
I ask this to see if there is the possibility of burning even in that room .
When you were metalica plate 5mm became almost red? even so gasification?
your new creation so there will be an evolution of the vortex? for my case it would be bad ... even though I know that these heaters should be at the center of the room (or better still on a central wall facing south is not communicating with the outside) my will be positioned against a wall (unfortunately communicating with the outside ... north moreover).
good fire for your new creation!
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Post by Vortex on Nov 8, 2016 6:35:12 GMT -8
I don't know if there is secondary combustion happening under the metal cook top. The point of my new test-bed stove model is to be able to easily experiment and answer all those sort of questions. Maybe it will lead to an evolution in the Vortex stove, maybe not, that will depend on the results. I can't see any major changes happening though, that haven't already been discussed in this thread. It's just fine tuning at this stage.
If you have to build your stove against an outside wall, be sure to insulate it well from the wall.
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Post by drooster on Nov 8, 2016 10:11:16 GMT -8
The idea I want to try out on the new stove model is to have a secondary burn chamber above the firebox made of insulating refractory. The hot flue gases will come out under the back of the hot-plate and move towards the front (the opposite direction to the existing layout). I would like to see that, have you (or any rocketeers) experimented with "waisted" risers/insulated-secondary-burn-flue instead of mostly stable cross-sectional-areas? I want to build a riserless stove here but want maximum temperature and secondary burn in flattish flues above the firebox. |
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Post by jojohannes on Nov 8, 2016 13:28:04 GMT -8
wooha patamos,
that is one very nice looking build! Congrats!
What did you use for the "plaster"?
il piccolo.
I'm on the road at the moment but I'll try to draw something up when I get home
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Post by Vortex on Nov 9, 2016 3:16:47 GMT -8
The idea I want to try out on the new stove model is to have a secondary burn chamber above the firebox made of insulating refractory. The hot flue gases will come out under the back of the hot-plate and move towards the front (the opposite direction to the existing layout). I would like to see that, have you (or any rocketeers) experimented with "waisted" risers/insulated-secondary-burn-flue instead of mostly stable cross-sectional-areas? I want to build a riserless stove here but want maximum temperature and secondary burn in flattish flues above the firebox. I haven't. I would imagine that would cause it to pulse like a pulsejet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PulsejetHave you looked at the stuff on 'Broken Risers', Matt Walker's Riserless Cookstove or Shilo's Sidewinder? |
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If so I don't think it will cause any problems.
