JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 22, 2013 20:18:02 GMT -8
I'm creating this topic to learn about why people learn about rocket stoves - what they do with them - and what kinds of things we "could" do with them insofar as helping disaster victims and other impoverished people out. When I first started reading about rocket stoves - some of the information that I'd come across was from Haiti. The things people were doing over there to survive blew me away. It melted my heart and made me realize that my husband and I could benefit from using that kind of technology out to help ourselves and everyone we help as well. We travel around the country helping disaster victims as well as home-steading on a 10 acre piece of land in South Dakota. Our most recent volunteer work was in 2011 when the Southern United States got nailed with over 300 tornadoes. Entire villages/towns and cities were destroyed. When we first arrived down South, we were directed by a fire marshall to a place called "Flat Rock" Alabama. It was on the top of a mountain. Although my husband grew up in the mountains, I'd never even "seen" a real mountain nonetheless ever "been" on one. It was quite the experience. What we saw on the top of that mountain was some of the most gruesome things I've ever seen. There were people huddling for cover under sheets that were nailed the trees...there were people (deceased) strewn across tree branches - and parentless children running around in the woods. The hardest part was watching these people get denial letters from FEMA and FEMA wanting to conduct a clean sweep of the area (so they could minimize the actual damages - something I investigated back then and exposed). I'm thinking that we could actually use some of the designs posted on these forums...some ideas..."anything" to help these disaster victims out in the future... Many people lost their entire home. For example - this was once a high class neighborhood street in Chattanooga, TN:   And up on the mountain:    Some of these people lost their entire home - poof - gone, along with every family member they had. To me - this is the reason for my learning about rocket stoves, rocket mass heaters - and everything else of the like. I want to use these things (pocket rockets, for example) to assist these people when it gets cold at night...or when they need something to cook on. I want to ensure that they can keep their children from being cold at night. I want to help make them temporary housing...when there is no other options except a donated tent for a 5 person family. This is, in effect, my life's work - volunteering right here in the US - to help people who are either impoverished or disaster victims. The government cannot afford (money or time) to help every person who needs it, however, the rest of the nation can and does. I'd like to see what kinds of other things like the rocket stove are out there - that would aid me in helping these kinds of people. Whatcha think? Got anything in mind? |
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Post by mechartnik on Jan 22, 2013 22:04:50 GMT -8
Jaime (?)
I beleive that rocket stoves were developed years ago in response, not to a cataclysmic disaster, but to an ongoing health and environmental emergency.
Approvecho.org was one of the early groups working with/improving upon earlier stove designs in the "third world".
Other groups such as PracticalAction.org and Kickstart.org and Mayapedal.org are part of a wider net, so to speak; advocating for, inventing and implementing numerous appropriate and sustainable technologies encompassing food, shelter, energy and transportation.
There is such a breadth of technologies, in so many areas (as alluded to at that other forum) that we can be involved with, both here in the US and abroad: and the time is here for us.
Thanks to all that share their work, and, as my tagline reads in other places: "we CAN build a better world"
Andor
P.S. you might also enjoy builditsolar.com - clearinghouse lots of DIY renewable energy projects
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 22, 2013 23:29:03 GMT -8
Jaime (?) I beleive that rocket stoves were developed years ago in response, not to a cataclysmic disaster, but to an ongoing health and environmental emergency. Approvecho.org was one of the early groups working with/improving upon earlier stove designs in the "third world". Other groups such as PracticalAction.org and Kickstart.org and Mayapedal.org are part of a wider net, so to speak; advocating for, inventing and implementing numerous appropriate and sustainable technologies encompassing food, shelter, energy and transportation. There is such a breadth of technologies, in so many areas (as alluded to at that other forum) that we can be involved with, both here in the US and abroad: and the time is here for us. Thanks to all that share their work, and, as my tagline reads in other places: "we CAN build a better world" Andor P.S. you might also enjoy builditsolar.com - clearinghouse lots of DIY renewable energy projects Yes, It's Jamie  Oh my gosh - you've provided so much here I know what I'll be busy doing tomorrow lol. It's my birthday - and what better way to spend it. 32 years...has taught me that we can..indeed..build a better world. I just saw "cob cottage co" for the first time this evening via their website. I was in awe... It made me realize once again...how heavily indoctrinated we all are....and how simple and pleasurable life really can be....without all the "clutter." It's late and I'm a bit tired...but rest assured..come tomorrow I'll have some great comments about those websites. I know the ones that I had seen with Haiti...took my breath away. The power of the human spirit...is amazing. The will to survive... Call me sappy...but this is the stuff that really just makes life "worth it." |
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Post by pinhead on Jan 23, 2013 6:36:42 GMT -8
If you want to take this a further, check out Earthships. |
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 9:38:46 GMT -8
I checked out the websites listed by you folks here. Pretty amazing...I'm still reading. I did come across this:  Pallets are something that can be readily found in disaster areas, of course, a lot of debris can be used as well and by putting cob in between the spaces...and with a team of people building - one could easily build the people a temporary home that wouldn't be environmentally damaging if built correctly. It would provide safety...and add a rocket stove for cooking...and they'd have all the essentials of life. They'd be able to cook with the donated food...warm it up...sleep in peace..etc. |
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 10:16:38 GMT -8
If you want to take this a further, check out Earthships. I love Earthships. After reading the website, I realized that they are doing what we've been doing. The two trailer houses that we added onto an existing home (my mother's home) were salvaged. They were abandoned and were going to be broken down and thrown in the land fill. My grandfather raised me. He passed away in May of 2012 God rest his soul. That left my mother and grandmother to work the land and tend the animals on the 10 acre farm in South Dakota. We moved back to South Dakota from Michigan in 2012 after grandpa passed away (he had a rare bile duct cancer) to help with the farm as they were facing foreclosure without grandpa's income. Grandpa was a tinkerer. There is so much stuff on this hobby farm that he salvaged from auctions...from local building deconstructions...etc. The outside of our trailer houses is shielded from the weather using the floor of a basketball court that had been used in the elementary school for years....and when they tore it down - they were giving the materials away for local residents to use. The sections were 8x10 - and EXTREMELY heavy. Grandpa (with our help) put the walls up around the trailer. We plan to cover the entire outside of the house with natural materials this coming summer. All of our lumber that we get...is from the factories in town. Pallets - 2x3's that they just throw away. There is a lot of metal that people throw away in this area as well - that we utilize. Televisions contain a lot of copper. We salvage televisions and use the copper for heating in some places. There is very minimal supplies structuralizing our home...that were "bought" from a store. We are using pop cans to construct various experimental wind turbine devices (tens of thousands). The place that we live in right now looks like a landfill minues the garbage. We have wood all over the place...tin and metal piled up...barns falling down...etc. We plan to change that. Grandpa had just gotten so old that he couldn't keep up. He had started to build a greenhouse using old salvaged windows...but the roof of the building it was connected to has started to fail and fall a bit. This summer will be very busy...we'll be working from sun up to sun down - and beyond, but we're anxious to get started...and determined. We tear down homes and buildings as well - for those folks that don't want them anymore. You can get a lot of wood from a barn that people want torn down. It's a bit of work, but we do it...and not for our own selfish needs. We do it because the world cannot keep raising trees in 2 years. We want to help preserve the trees that have been here...growing on the Earth for so long...and to help with everything else that humans are destroying due to our population size. I keep going back to a quote that I had seen once: "You must be the change you want to see in the world." ~Mahatma Gandhi There is no quote I've ever come across...that trumps it. Therefore, I try to be the change I want to see in the world. I don't have a lot of money...but I have a lot of other things that trump money...and I try to share it as much as I can without letting people discourage me - and people are good at that from time to time. I have drive - I might as well use it to help myself and everyone else as well. (Nash Equilibrium theory) |
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 10:31:08 GMT -8
My grandpa driving our son Jesse's "mini" quad and Jesse driving the "monster" six wheeler. You can kinda see the elementary school gymnasium floor "siding" on the side of the garage in that pic:  A recycled "pallet" deck that Dave (my husband), Grandpa and Jesse were building summer before last before grandpa passed.  Jesse wheelin his dump trucks in his bag down the driveway to our gravel pit where him and his sister play "dumptrucks" construction. In this pic - you can see the salvaged things that grandpa had collected:  The pens where the sheep are kept (about 10 years ago) where grandpa used old salvaged fence and other things:   He wasn't so much concerned with "aesthetics" whereas I am a bit...so we'll be working the farm and getting it fixed up using salvaged items - to continue his legacy. We're even looking into "dying" the sides of the barn with natural pigments...not quite sure on that one yet. All in all - he put together a nice foundation here...and it will be very interesting to see what we can do with all of these materials...for the betterment of everyone. |
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 11:12:31 GMT -8
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 15:04:06 GMT -8
So, I've spoken to my team.
I've showed them some various topics from the other forum at permies as well as this website and richsoil, the MIT rocket stove project website, aprovecho, the haitian rocket stove website, and cob cottage website.
I've also shown them the "earthships" website and their youtube channel.
It would take us at least a year...to develop and carry out a project plan to add this as an addition onto our platform and they are all willing to do it. So I've told them that the first thing they all need to do - is sit down and do some basic "free writing" about what it is we really want to accomplish using this type of technology.
It looks like we will have a pretty good thing going on here - and as long as our stakeholders agree to the addition and what not - we'll be able to put it into motion. Our stakeholder list is comprised of local "non-corporate" businesses who are all of "like mind" when it comes to these disasters. They range from Michigan to South Dakota and everywhere in between.
What I'd really like to see...is ideas and suggestions about how disaster victims can be helped the most. The Rocket Stove for cooking being one of the mains.
It's hard enough to be a disaster victim...and harder when yet another disaster is created while trying to help these people. I am thankful for ANY input...and ANY ideas...suggestions...
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Post by Donkey on Jan 23, 2013 18:18:07 GMT -8
In your travels, don't overlook Natural Building.
I've been a natural builder for about a decade now, when I look at your images of disaster zone, I see piles of building materials ready for re-use.
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 18:48:00 GMT -8
In your travels, don't overlook Natural Building. I've been a natural builder for about a decade now, when I look at your images of disaster zone, I see piles of building materials ready for re-use. See, This is exactly what I'm talking about - with regard to shelters. They were using sheets...nailed to trees for shelter...or coleman tents for full families. If we could somehow construct the natural homes...that, if moved out of could be used to just go back into nature without destroying anything....why not? I had purchased Ianto's book on hand-sculpted homes a while back and it's in our library. I had also purchased the following books: Building with Earth by Gernot Minke Earthships by Reynolds (although it wasn't until today while looking through those books that I made the connection to the website I saw for the first time today) You aren't kidding Donkey...about the debris...I was just looking through some of the other pictures... Here's the salvaged trailer that we first started out with. It was an old U Haul trailer that they were going to pitch..so we fixed it a fast so we could use it to carry more donated items down south for our project (we had gotten over 13 semi trucks full of donated goods both used and new from individuals and companies)...and still didn't have room...  Here's where a home stood - and the only thing "in tact" that was left was the concrete slab... A lot of that could be re-used to build natural homes, I would think.  A pile of what was once a roof for a shed:  This was a home in a residential neighborhood in Chattanooga, TN - look at all that wood...and brick that could be used...  This was a bank...in Ringold, TN:  A gas station in Ringold, TN:  It would be very interesting...if another disaster strikes, Donkey - to get your input on putting together emergency housing for some of these folks...it wouldn't have to be permanent like earthships...but just something temporary (that we could build pocket rockets or rocket stoves in for heating/cooking) that they could use until such time that they could get back on their feet. A lot of those mountain people didn't have insurance. They are living on as little as 20.00 a month...some of them... We traveled all over Tennessee and Alabama helping to clean up the disaster area, rebuild and provide donations. We had found that during that particular instance...most people needed shelter first...because after the first spree of tornadoes..another spree came and just "undid" all of our immediate work. |
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 18:52:19 GMT -8
This was some of the tents that were being put up to help the residents that we helped put up and that....was a learning experience all in itself. It was amazing...like putting up circus tents:  This was a lighting fixture that my husband Dave was helping to install:  What the outside of the tent looks like:  |
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Post by mechartnik on Jan 23, 2013 20:26:58 GMT -8
Jaime et al
as a "student of architecture", a gentle suggestion; be mindful of the differences in climate/culture, "indiginous" (can't remember the proper term) architecture has usually evolved to address local issues, natural or manmade...and good design in any arena should involve the local people------------------appropriate, sustainable
for emergencies/disasters add modular/adaptable/reconfigurable
there are so many groups and designers doing good works, the previous links above will get you started, here are a couple more; search for
Journey to Forever from soup to nuts, tons of heat, energy stuff
Hex-a-yurt incredible flatpack design, made one for the kids from cardboard
OneStrawrob.com suburban permaculture, "awesome sauce" blog
Eliot Coleman, Four Season Harvest book on all season northern growing, website also
hope that helps (will keep you in idea fodder for at least two weeks)
my focus(!) is pretty spread out as i've been trying to teach low cost DIY solutions to aid those in an urban environment, even without a disaster, there is great need in the areas of food-shelter-energy-transportation, all are related in my mind...
a friend of mine posts a clearing house of sorts on facebook called WorldCubed
tons of stuff out there, enjoy, keep up the good work
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JJ
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Post by JJ on Jan 23, 2013 21:33:41 GMT -8
Jaime et al as a "student of architecture", a gentle suggestion; be mindful of the differences in climate/culture, "indiginous" (can't remember the proper term) architecture has usually evolved to address local issues, natural or manmade...and good design in any arena should involve the local people------------------appropriate, sustainable for emergencies/disasters add modular/adaptable/reconfigurable there are so many groups and designers doing good works, the previous links above will get you started, here are a couple more; search for Journey to Forever from soup to nuts, tons of heat, energy stuff Hex-a-yurt incredible flatpack design, made one for the kids from cardboard OneStrawrob.com suburban permaculture, "awesome sauce" blog Eliot Coleman, Four Season Harvest book on all season northern growing, website also hope that helps (will keep you in idea fodder for at least two weeks) my focus(!) is pretty spread out as i've been trying to teach low cost DIY solutions to aid those in an urban environment, even without a disaster, there is great need in the areas of food-shelter-energy-transportation, all are related in my mind... a friend of mine posts a clearing house of sorts on facebook called WorldCubed tons of stuff out there, enjoy, keep up the good work I am so proud to be communicating with people who are out there trying to make a difference in the world. You people just amaze me. I was just researching different types of soil throughout the United States - especially in my home state here of SD and also the places we've been to (down South, particularly). I had posted to Donkey in the Rocket Stoves for Heating section about soil. I haven't been to all 50 states helping disasters yet...so I can see I have my research cut out for me. With my team's help - your suggestions should prove to be wise...and we will indeed...consider the differences in regions, culture and other things. One thing I realized is that there are many places throughout the US that have little soil...and lots of "rocks." So I began looking into things (and consulted my set of Firefox books LOL) about using "wood" to build temporary and permanent housing and/or cave structures built into homes. That...looks to be a bit more time consuming than using loam types for structural stuff. Of course it's doable though...just a bit more labor intensive. You inspire me. What kind of work do you do for those areas? I mean - what is your specialty? I'm going to check out WorldCubed on Facebook. It sounds like we're of like-mind. I can just see this nation's political atmosphere getting worse...and all around me I see people suffering needlessly. I think people have gotten into the mindset that they should be "able" to live beyond their means...and that's just not the case. People can live in a nice place with nice things...without paying 3/4 of their paycheck into the bills...and I think what you're doing is awesome...simply awesome. Thanks a lot I am looking forward to your fodder for me!!! |
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Post by buenijo on Jan 25, 2013 0:31:02 GMT -8
One of the most important things to have in a disaster scenario is potable water. A small biomass fueled furnace like a rocket heater or a small updraft gasifier furnace can be used to pasteurize water. Add a sediment filter and a charcoal filter to the mix, and such a system can generate good quality processed water at a high rate. In particular, it is possible to use heat regeneration to increase the efficiency of this process many fold. When water is heated for pasteurization, there is no need to maintain the water at an elevated temperature for long. It's possible to use the heated water to preheat the unpasteurized water before it moves into the heater. A remarkably compact copper heat exchanger in a counter flow (also called "contra" flow) configuration can preheat the incoming water very efficiently to decrease biomass fuel consumption many fold for the same mass of water processed. A pump can be devised to send water through the system at a controlled rate, but it's also possible to send water to an elevated tank with a hand pump to allow for gravity to do this work. To give you an idea of what's possible, an efficient system can pasteurize and filter 100 gallons of water while consuming on the order of 5 pounds of dry wood fuel by using heat regeneration (and this is a fairly conservative figure). Without this heat regeneration the dry wood fuel consumption would be well over 20 pounds.
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