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Post by satamax on Dec 8, 2012 22:51:41 GMT -8
Grizbach, how did you seal it? I like your bench idea. It's still time for a change for me.
Well, i have plenty of ideas bubling in my head.
You have pipe inside the round part of the bench? Or is it a bell? What did you use for the round part? This is not a barrel?
Thanks a lot.
Max.
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Post by grizbach on Dec 9, 2012 15:44:20 GMT -8
Max, The bench is hand crafted out of sheet metal with a plywood base. It currently has 6" tube going through it but will very soon become a bell.
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Post by satamax on May 7, 2013 22:18:45 GMT -8
Guys!
I'm onto something!
Here's what i posted on permies.
Well, it didn't occur to me before that my box and fited with Matthew's half barrel idea was so simple to implement. I wanted solid concrete mass; which ultimately is better. That would do in a wooden box, but not realy with the stones above the half barrel idea. That would scorch the wood. And then thinking about someone else's problem, and i bump into that idea of using "cantines". Thoses military trunks can be found prety much anywhere and cheap'ish, don't burn, are easy to transport with a sack trolley. I wonder how much they would weight with the half barrel, concrete and stones in it.
Well, i hope you'll like this idea guys.
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Post by matthewwalker on May 8, 2013 7:19:20 GMT -8
I think it's a great idea Max! I've got drawings of basically the same thing, metal boxes for quick, temporary bench bells for outdoor systems. I love it, especially reusing that military surplus. Keep us posted if you build it please.
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Post by satamax on May 8, 2013 8:41:59 GMT -8
I think it's a great idea Max! I've got drawings of basically the same thing, metal boxes for quick, temporary bench bells for outdoor systems. I love it, especially reusing that military surplus. Keep us posted if you build it please. Matthew, i will certainly build something like this. I was checking on a secondhand site here, and there's a few and far between big ones. To fit a barrel in, only 100cm and 110cm models would do the job. Another one for a bell, is home heating oil tanks, of tanks for holding the oil for tractors, usualy tall rectangular thingys, into which a rocket could be built, or one could use it as a barrel above. Or else, lay it flat and pile up bricks around and a slab of something on top for quick mass. Etc! All we need is square tanks. Repeat after me all we need, is a bunch of squarish tanks, a bunch of squarish tanks, a bunch of squarish tanks! ;D |
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Post by satamax on May 30, 2013 12:29:51 GMT -8
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Post by matthewwalker on May 30, 2013 15:05:47 GMT -8
Yeah Max, I've built quite a few half barrel 8" systems at this point. One following Peter's batch design, a few half barrel burn chambers of various sizes, and a few top feeds. I'm really sold on the system. The barrels as burn chambers do burn out, but lately I've been packing the inside with clay/sand/perlite to form a good internal shape for the combustion chamber, and using the same mix made with good clay over the top of the barrel about 6" thick. I just tore out the original outdoor one a month or so ago and even though the barrel was burned out, the stove was running perfectly when I disassembled it. So, yeah, most of my systems are 8". I like the heat!
I'm of course talking about the burn chamber barrels burning away, the mass barrels are perfectly fine when I take them apart, and I've used a few in multiple experiments over the last year.
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Post by satamax on May 30, 2013 21:46:34 GMT -8
Cool Matthew. Thanks. Have you seen my latest idea? Using old single lockers. Over here, we have 35cm and 40cm widths. perfect for seting some "fractional mass" on top and on the sides; when laid flat. Or some are several lockers wide, and could be emptied and filled with two barrels may be, and stray mass. Like gravel or sand. Or something else which could be emptied when you want to move the thing. Lately i've been wondering about shot, is this a good idea? Another question, how airtight is your half barrel system? Thanks a lot. Max. Edit, it occured to me that there was another option. Use a three doors  Laid on it's back. Use the center one for a bell, and the two next to it for mass storage. |
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Post by matthewwalker on May 31, 2013 7:45:08 GMT -8
Max, most of my half barrel systems have been outdoor, so I don't worry too much about sealing them. The ones I've built indoors were fully encased in cob, so again, they weren't sealed very well before cobbing. As Donkey and Peter noted, when they are running they are typically drawing inwards at any small gaps. Still, if it were indoors and you are not using a clay cob, I'd want them fairly well sealed. There will be smoke on start up as things warm up.
I think the locker idea is a good one, there are a few videos I've seen where others have used metal boxes for the mass. One from a few years ago, and this one, which made me think of you....
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Post by satamax on May 31, 2013 8:13:43 GMT -8
Cool Matthew.
Thanks a lot!
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Post by satamax on Jun 28, 2013 9:22:15 GMT -8
Hey guys. Here's what i dug from the back of my workshop. Attachment DeletedThe other one i had was useless. I won't use the big ones. But this one seems good enough to repair and host the mass. Now it's mater to find small barrels. Not 55 gal ones. Cut the innards, remove the door, and fill with concrete and a barrel bell. |
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Post by ryancantsing on Oct 10, 2013 6:20:42 GMT -8
Getting ready to try the half barrel system. I think it's quite an innovation and solves some problems I was facing w/ application of a traditional RMH. I do have a few questions if you all can bear with a forum newbie w/ no builds under his belt (yet!) Is the length of the exhaust pipe, in the bell configuration (the closely placed pipe as illustrated in this video/thread) a critical consideration? How is the length determined if it's a crucial value, and what are the effects of going shorter or longer than recommended? My application is two-fold. The most immediate use will be to provide heat to a greenhouse which is butted up against the south side of my home. Obviously I'm trying to max out my heating ability, as I want to produce and overwinter cold tender plants in my cold winter midwest (kansas) climate. The second application would be to continue routing the heat under the back side of my house (which was an addition and is poorly insulated [not my poor build job  ]) to provide extra heat in the winter. I would like to minimize the time I spend under the house in the crawl space. So I was thinking casting some internal mass w/ the half barrels, and then fitting them in place would be faster than trying to go a traditional way (stove pipe and mass needing to be built in place.) Forgive me if I'm missing something. I am pretty much a full time worker bee, and all my Permaculture efforts are in my rare free time...so I don't mind taking shortcuts to get the info/knowledge I need. THANKS IN ADVANCE! |
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Post by matthewwalker on Oct 10, 2013 7:59:37 GMT -8
Hey Ryan, I'm unclear on exactly what your first question is, and have no idea what your second question is, but I'll try to answer the first one. I assume you are asking about the length of the vertical chimney? If so, the taller the better and the more insulated the better. A lot of this depends on the length/size of your bell. If it's really big and you cool the gasses too much, you might have trouble getting the gasses to rise out the chimney at all until you prime it with a small charge of newspaper lit in a clean out directly at the bottom of the chimney to get things flowing. However, my outdoor half barrel bench system will run pretty will with no chimney at all, so there's a wide range of what's possible here. I'll stop there and see if I'm even answering your question.
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Post by ryancantsing on Oct 10, 2013 9:36:23 GMT -8
Yes. My question was simply what determines the size of the vertical chimney (if it's size is even crucial). You said it's based on the size of the bell. I was thinking of utilizing a 55 gal barrel for the half barrel bench set up, just as the one you've depicted on this thread. I would start with just the one barrel (halved, so 2 parts) and the final length of the system (when I have a need for it) wouldn't span more than 5 or 6 halved barrels long. You've answered it as a generalization: the longer the better, but your system depicted here (which mine wouldn't be larger than) runs fine w/ no chimney at all. Correct? That was my only question  Thanks! |
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 273
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Post by dvawolk on Oct 10, 2013 10:22:58 GMT -8
However, my outdoor half barrel bench system will run pretty will with no chimney at all, so there's a wide range of what's possible here. I'll stop there and see if I'm even answering your question. Mathew, totally no chimney? Exhaust hole is pointing up? Even with full batch, no smoke? You have one barrel over the riser and two halves of barrel for the bench. That's it, right or is there something else? All cobbed ? What is the exhaust temperature? Even for 6 inch batchbox that should be about 200 Celsius? |
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]) to provide extra heat in the winter. I would like to minimize the time I spend under the house in the crawl space. So I was thinking casting some internal mass w/ the half barrels, and then fitting them in place would be faster than trying to go a traditional way (stove pipe and mass needing to be built in place.)
Thanks!