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Post by skyking on Nov 22, 2012 5:55:14 GMT -8
Has anyone tried a riser with brick then lining the tunnel with this? www.ktrefractories.com/CeramicFiberProducts/CeramicFiberBoard.htmPerhaps even using it for the burn/feed tunnel as well? Researching/searching for materials for my first build, going into my geodome greenhouse: southernexposuretrading.com/domes/domes.phpStarted with 1600 gal tank for passive solar heating, didn't work - not enough solar gain here in NH in Nov-Dec. Then tried a pellet stove - expensive and decided to quit on coldest night last year (-12F) and everything growing froze/died. I figure a RMH is best solution, get it going late afternoon to build up heat mass for night. It gets into the 70s during the day if it's sunny, even if outside is only 10F. |
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Post by kmccune on Jan 1, 2013 6:35:12 GMT -8
When you use brick do you insulate around them?
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hpmer
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Post by hpmer on Jan 1, 2013 8:20:03 GMT -8
Looks promising. Wonder how expensive? Didn't see any prices. |
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Post by satamax on Jan 1, 2013 11:44:26 GMT -8
Skyking, Peter uses something similar for the prototypes.
Kmccune. Yes you should insulate, exept if you use insulative refractory bricks (the light ones)
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Post by peterberg on Jan 1, 2013 12:23:06 GMT -8
Skyking, Peter uses something similar for the prototypes. Yes, that's right, I did use it as riser material. Not the lower part of it, I would consider the lower parts of the riser and feed as tunnel territory so this should be refractory castable or fire brick in my opinion. Everything of the riser above the tunnel ceiling can be made out of this board, provided the specification of this is at least 2050 F., preferably higher. |
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Post by kmccune on Jan 1, 2013 13:22:07 GMT -8
Thanks you, that is about what I was thinking, but I thought I should ask.
Kevin
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Post by peterberg on Feb 1, 2013 3:11:49 GMT -8
Mcrocket wrote a report about this thread. Report are for complaints, not for asking questions.
The best way to contact a contributor is to place the question in the same thread by clicking "reply" at the right side at the end of the page or "quote"at the upper right hand side of the post to quote the same post.
Welcome to the boards, Mcrocket.
Here's the question:
Reported by mcrocket on Today at 6:44 for the following reason:
I'm brand new here today, and I have a question for Karl, but I can't find how to contact him. Can you help me, please? I would like to ask him what Proportions of "paper, cat litter, kaolin and cement" he would suggest I use.
Thank you,
McRocket
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Post by stephenson1 on Mar 22, 2013 3:38:48 GMT -8
Karl, can you share your castable recipe in detail?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2013 5:06:07 GMT -8
Karl, can you share your castable recipe in detail? About 10% cement. Preferable for heat resistance: pozzolanic cement eg. trass cement or a mixture made half of portland cement and burned lime. Pure portland will do too. If kiln fired the kind of cement will become less important. By volume half clay half cat litter. 1/2-2 rolls toilet paper per gallon water. The ratio of clay, cat litter and paper can be varied depending whether strength of insulation is desired. Patient people can omit the cement as Donkey would recommend. The cement is only for speeding up hardening of the wet mixture. |
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Post by toshvan on Apr 15, 2013 15:39:18 GMT -8
About 10% cement. Preferable for heat resistance: pozzolanic cement eg. trass cement or a mixture made half of portland cement and burned lime. Pure portland will do too. If kiln fired the kind of cement will become less important. By volume half clay half cat litter.1/2-2 rolls toilet paper per gallon water. The ratio of clay, cat litter and paper can be varied depending whether strength of insulation is desired. Patient people can omit the cement as Donkey would recommend. The cement is only for speeding up hardening of the wet mixture. Am I wrong or cat litter is made from dried ground clay? Did you by chance omit kaolin and meant: "By volume half cat litter/clay and half kaolin."? I am confused, as Wikipedia says Kaolinite is also a clay mineral ( Al2Si2O5(OH)4 ). I guess kaolin is required for making it as lightweight ceramic when heated on high temperatures? Can I use local clay or cat litter is recommended? Thanks for sharing, and sorry for asking so many questions in a single post. I am interested in lightweight materials as I plant to build RMH (or at least just a rocket stove) on the second floor of my house and weight can be an issue... Any ideas on lighter materials for the thermal mass? |
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Post by Donkey on Apr 15, 2013 21:28:32 GMT -8
Local clay can work. It depends on the propertied of your particular stuff.
The only way to know is try out some experiments.. Make some test pucks and toss them in a fire. Build a test rocket stove somewhere safe AND out of the weather, test it and see.
If you take the M out of Rocket Mass Heater, it can't be called RMH..
You intend to build a lightweight RH? Sure, can be done but you will loose some of the nicest features of the RMH.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2013 5:51:44 GMT -8
Am I wrong or cat litter is made from dried ground clay? Cat litter is usualy made from bentonite, sometimes from zeolithes, which are the minerals with the largest inner surface. (Large enough for use in adsorption cooling) Cat litter is processed to optimize its usability, thus not the same as just digged from ground and dried. |
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Post by toshvan on Apr 16, 2013 12:26:25 GMT -8
Tnx for taking the time to explain.
@donkey, I'm sorry for not making myself more clear. I do plan to use thermal mass. I just meant that I'd like some compromise in the material, so my thermal mass is somewhat lighter for the price of being less thermally accumulating. I guess I should go with cob... I wondered since I sow on this forum people using concrete based mixtures.
@karl, sorry for me being ignorant, I have a bit of a deadline and I try to learn as much as I can in a short time. Can you explain in simple words what are the benefits of your mix material for the riser part, I thought it's the lighter wight and inssulation, am I wrong?
I loathe to have to use refractory briks for the middle and upper part of the raiser
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Post by Donkey on Apr 16, 2013 15:50:11 GMT -8
toshvan,
You might want to think about bells, a masonry bell (or set of bells) will be lighter (as a general rule) than a cob bench.
The advantage of Karl's recipe over mine is that the cement in his will harden the casting faster, he can take it out of the molds earlier.
The advantage of mine is that it can be made without buying and fussing with cement.
Unless you're using special heat tolerant cement, it will not contribute to the final strength of the material. After a few good burns, the cement will have been destroyed. The clay will then hold the heat riser together, or not, depending on the clay.
Kitty litter will work if you don't have appropriate, locally sourced clay soils
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Post by thomas on Aug 29, 2013 16:33:01 GMT -8
Questions about stainless steel use for heat riser. I just built a rsmh using 8" x 8" x 12 (three) insulated with 1 1/2" Perlite chimney flue linings with a firebrick burn tunnel. The stove was wrapped in metal of various gauges and insulated on two sides with 1 1/2" of Perlite. I noted some improvements that could be made, but for my first stove, I am pleased with results. For my next stove, I am thinking of retaining the fire brick burn tunnel, insulating the bottom, back and two sides of the burn tunnel with 1 1/2" Perlite, but would like to use, for various reasons, stainless steel for the heat riser, insulation containing chamber tube and the outer tube. I visited www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1175 posted above and see that Grade 304, 309 and 310 will withstand continuous heat of 925, 1095 and 1150 degrees C respectfully, (1688 F, 2003 F and 2102 F respectfully) in dry air. I understand there is moisture in the burn and these figures are for dry air. My question is - will the heat riser heat exceed these temperatures? Given that there will be moisture in the burning gases, will using one of these grades work as a heat riser instead of the 8"x 8" chimney flue? Any ideas when the stainless would fail? Are we talking sooner rather than later, or will it last a few years of continuous burning? Any one use stainless for any length of time? Your input greatly appreciated.  |
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