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Post by kyrillB. on Jan 5, 2024 2:41:08 GMT -8
Oh wow, good questions! I will need again some time to decide, if I build the small or the big one. Still my preference is the small. I cant replace one piece by an stronger one. So I will ask the carpenter who helped us building, how much weight i can ad on top.(Apart from the Foundation that will be made stronger anyway)
Because of some anxious neighbors we had to place the stoves chimney between the Kitchen and the Window, so there is not much space. For that I am planing a bench beneath the window and not to tall to have light from the window.(Quite some limiting facts that came together)
Okay, now I made some calculation and for my Stones/Firebricks I can make a System in between. So I decided for a base of 8,5cm and a Riser with 11,75cm. That is stronger and I hope not too heavy for my floor. The drawings will came in some weeks... I am not fast jet!
1. is it necessary to make a second wall behind the riser as it is in your drawings on your webside?
2. Would the 150mm chimney work for that system, or how can I adapt it, so that it is working?
I want to have a bench for cosines and to spread the weight on more surface.
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Post by peterberg on Jan 5, 2024 9:50:05 GMT -8
1. is it necessary to make a second wall behind the riser as it is in your drawings on your webside? I am assuming you mean above the riser here. Yes, it is absolutely necessary. The bricks will expand in such a rate that the bricks will be walking apart due to the repeated heating/cooling cycle. Those two layers there should be separated by superwool or something else so that the inner skin is able to expand without cracking the outer skin. 2. Would the 150mm chimney work for that system, or how can I adapt it, so that it is working? The difference between 100 mm and 150 mm is too large, between 120 mm and 150 mm it could work. |
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Post by kyrillB. on Jan 5, 2024 11:13:37 GMT -8
1. is it necessary to make a second wall behind the riser as it is in your drawings on your webside? I am assuming you mean above the riser here. Yes, it is absolutely necessary. The bricks will expand in such a rate that the bricks will be walking apart due to the repeated heating/cooling cycle. Those two layers there should be separated by superwool or something else so that the inner skin is able to expand without cracking the outer skin. behind the Riser is a small wall, just as high as the fire box. I read in some thread that this wall might not be needed. I wonder how you recommend it now?
And my next question is because I found stones with the size 124mm that would perfectly fit. Could I make just the riser instead of 118mm 124mm? could I deviate 6mm from the Normal? Thad would be very prectical!
Thank you for all your help!
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Post by peterberg on Jan 5, 2024 12:28:20 GMT -8
I Thought air in between would be enough. But I will ad some ceramic fiber carton. That ceramic fibre felt isn't able to accomodate several mm's of expansion. Air would be enough, yes. However, any contact between inner and outer skin, fallen mortar for example, would result in a cracked outer skin. It's not only that the bricks expand in horizontal direction, it will expand in vertical direction as well. And since the bell is higher than wide, vertical expansion would be quite some more. The wool is a means to an end, not the goal itself, you could use cardboard for example. This will char away during first fires so the space between the skins shouldn't be open to the air anywhere. And it is not what I mean! On your Web side you have this grafik batchrocket.eu/images/rockets/files/dev2018/square2.jpg behind the Riser is a small wall, just as high as the fire box. I read in some thread that this wall might not be needed. I wonder how you recommend it now? That additional piece of wall isn't in the final design, I had to dig for the drawing. This picture might be taken from one of the earlier attempts that lead to the final result. This piece isn't needed at all, please just ignore it. And my next question is because I found stones with the size 124mm that would perfectly fit. Could I make just the riser instead of 118mm 124mm? could I deviate 6mm from the Normal? Thad would be very prectical! It can be done, no problem. Please remember to scale the rest of the drawing up as well. Scaling is without steps, one could choose literally any size. |
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Post by kyrillB. on Jan 12, 2024 5:50:09 GMT -8
I wonder at which height the bypass should come?
And I am unsure if the insulation is downwards enough?
Is the wall thick enough so that the bench is not getting too hot?
of course i am always interested for any suggestions and exchange!
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Post by kyrillB. on Feb 15, 2024 11:38:38 GMT -8
How much temperature is behind the first 3 cm of Stone(Fire Brick)? So how much temperature the insulation of the Fire chamber has to withstand?
I cant find any data by searching in the forum...
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Post by fiedia on Feb 18, 2024 11:15:19 GMT -8
The blue curve "firebox facing skin1" shows the temp behind the 3cm firebox bricks. But you must be aware that it will be hotter if you insulate the firebox.
The need for insulating the firebox is not clear to me. I do not insulate it and it seems to work well. The less you use those fibers, the safer it is.
Another point is that the 3cm firebricks totally cracked. 5cm bricks are ok up to now (2nd season).
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Post by josephcrawley on Feb 18, 2024 14:54:44 GMT -8
The blue curve "firebox facing skin1" shows the temp behind the 3cm firebox bricks. But you must be aware that it will be hotter if you insulate the firebox. The need for insulating the firebox is not clear to me. I do not insulate it and it seems to work well. The less you use those fibers, the safer it is. Another point is that the 3cm firebricks totally cracked. 5cm bricks are ok up to now (2nd season).
I also have never insulated a firebox and feel it is unnecessary. It is necessary to plan on relining the firebox in the future as the brick will eventually breakdown. Especially around the port. |
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Post by kyrillB. on Mar 4, 2024 10:58:49 GMT -8
Thank you, that is good to know. I decided to stay with the insulation, but I Reduce it to one layer vermiculit for the firebox and one layer ceramic fiber for the riser! That makes it cheaper too.
And I wonder if I should glue all the firebricks together or lat them be loose, because they are hold by a frame? What are my possibilities?
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Post by kyrillB. on Oct 2, 2024 10:04:14 GMT -8
Hi,
I have now collected almost all the materials. Now I wonder if I can make the top of the bell out of glass. The top of the bell is double-walled. So there would be two glass plates. The inner one is about 25cm away from the riser exit. Robax ceramic glass says that it can withstand 750 degrees Celsius. Some say it can actually withstand more than 1100 degrees. What is your experience with it? And if so, does the glass stay soot free above the riser? I would put water pots on top of the second glass pane, or put them away depending on the heat requirement (fast heat or more storage mass).
A second question I have is the following: I have welded a frame for the combustion core in which all the sillimanite and vermiculite lie well on top of each other and also block each other from slipping. Only the riser is at risk of slipping. Wouldn't it be best if I didn't glue the slabs so that they can move minimally? Only the ones that can move out of position should be glued together?
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Post by peterberg on Oct 3, 2024 7:32:24 GMT -8
Hi, I have now collected almost all the materials. Now I wonder if I can make the top of the bell out of glass. The top of the bell is double-walled. So there would be two glass plates. The inner one is about 25cm away from the riser exit. Robax ceramic glass says that it can withstand 750 degrees Celsius. Some say it can actually withstand more than 1100 degrees. What is your experience with it? And if so, does the glass stay soot free above the riser? I would put water pots on top of the second glass pane, or put them away depending on the heat requirement (fast heat or more storage mass). What's the reason to make the top of the bell double walled glass? Normally, a ceramic glas pane won't break easily by heat alone and it is able to shed it's heat to the air above it. But in a double layer construction, the lower one will be much hotter than the top one. So you are running a serious risk with this construction, in my opinion. The glass won't stay soot free above the exhaust opening of a DSR2 core. There won't be anything to see anyway, the flames won't reach that far most of the time. Glass above a straight riser is easier, just a little bit more fuel and it's clean again. In my mind, try to get hold of an old induction cooktop and use the glass of that one. In a single layer, of course. The darker glass is also stronger. Through the process of producing this glass, there are christals growing in the material. The longer the process is kept going, the darker the glass until it is almost completely black. Producing the clear glass, the process has to be stopped much earlier. Best to incorporate a bypass, you'll almost certainly glad you did. |
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Post by kyrillB. on Oct 6, 2024 5:19:46 GMT -8
app.sketchup.com/share/tc/europe/k-69Tm6c30o?stoken=XBCRsBz1NiQvHEMxwCTytxfUZARmEvij98exal0xt7AgxoiLEZImft1GzBI1-D03&source=web
how high would you place the bypass? on the height of the riser output?
And would you glue the firebricks together in the combustion camber, although they are hold together by a metal frame? Or let them be loose so you can replace them more easily?
I think I will use ceramic glas or cast iron for the top. Thank you peter for your explanation.
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Post by kyrillB. on Oct 6, 2024 5:23:02 GMT -8
I should change the title to: project: Batch box, straight riser 11,8 System: Winter oven for my Yurt
but I don't know how or were...
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Post by peterberg on Oct 6, 2024 12:35:43 GMT -8
how high would you place the bypass? on the height of the riser output? A little bit lower than that, so most of the bell's ISA is still beneath it. And would you glue the firebricks together in the combustion camber, although they are hold together by a metal frame? Or let them be loose so you can replace them more easily? When there's a metal tension frame already, use that with ceramic paper or the like in the seams. |
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