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Post by fiedia on Feb 12, 2023 0:15:12 GMT -8
It is possible (though I think doubtful) that to reach that point of equilibrium, the bench might have to get so hot as to be impossible to sit on. Perhaps a good strategy would be to start with a metal bell, which will give the same quick response as the current stove. If it turns out that the response is too quick and the bench is not warm enough to satisfy, we can simply insulate the bell until its response slows down and more heat goes to the bench. In my former house, a wood insert and 5” pipes bringing very hot air from above the fireplace directly to the second floor provided real comfortable heating by -15F outside.
May be you can put a rocket in a steel box below your fan. Build an insulated bell around steel bell and fan to make sure you transfer hot air to the upper floor. You would benefit from lower wood consumption and improved heating. Make sure that your fan and pipes withstand hotter air flow. It would be compatible with a nice bench.
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Feb 12, 2023 4:29:56 GMT -8
"We do inspect our wood for termites before splitting and stacking"
My comments about being careful were more about the physical danger to the chainsaw operator than insect infestation. Felling a tree that's dead on the root involves additional dangers to what is already a hazardous undertaking. All trees are potential widow makers.
"Do you disagree?" yes, I'm with Joseph on this,fuel consumption and where the heat will end up are two different subjects.
If you're determined to build in the basement, maybe a batch with a large metal bell is the way to go ?
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iau461
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by iau461 on Feb 12, 2023 11:48:10 GMT -8
My comments about being careful were more about the physical danger to the chainsaw operator than insect infestation. Felling a tree that's dead on the root involves additional dangers to what is already a hazardous undertaking. All trees are potential widow makers. Ah, great point, thanks! I hire the pros whenever I'm in doubt for my safety (the bigger ones) or for my ability to lay it down with minimal damage to nearby trees... or structures. :-) fuel consumption and where the heat will end up are two different subjects So, the heat will certainly end up first in the basement stove room, just as it does now. Insulating the stove room walls will reduce losses through the CMU walls. From there it will get upstairs just fine, using the same methods we use now. BTW we have great draft, no trouble with stove smoking, the chimney is around 30' tall. The only complication I have been wrestling with, pursuant to "where the heat will end up", is how do I design a bell and a piped bench so that the bench gets just warm enough, while the chimney exhaust is the recommended temperature. The threads I've found on that subject can be summarized by one statement from peterberg: "This doesn't mean you can't build a batch box with a barrel and a piped bench. It has been done before but there are no calculations available for such a setup." What I have in mind now is to build an "air jacketed" core, i.e. a bell surrounding the bell, as suggested I think by josephcrawley and fiedia. Put a temperature sensor in the air space between the two bells, and another one in the bench. Duct the air from between the 2 bells over to the bench, with an in-line fan that only turns on and moves the air through the bench when the bench needs heat and the "between bells space" is warm. |
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Post by fiedia on Feb 12, 2023 23:11:59 GMT -8
Why ducting the air from between the two bells to the bench?
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iau461
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by iau461 on Feb 13, 2023 8:16:40 GMT -8
Why ducting the air from between the two bells to the bench?
As peterberg said, there are no calculations for a bell with a piped bench. I've seen examples of benches people here made (even with an open bench, not piped) that were too hot to sit on; I don't want one that's too hot, or too cold either. Even more importantly, I don't want the flue exit gas temperature to be too hot, or too cold, for obvious reasons. And I don't want to have to experiment and rebuild to make it work. These problems are avoided by making a standard bell, for which the calculations have been done for correct flue gas temperature, with a simple method of controlling bench temperature. It also heats the bench with room air, not exhaust gas, which feels safer. It also gives me an easy option for pushing warm room air into the existing HVAC ducts to get more heat upstairs, which folks here have been encouraging me to do. I've resisted because we need the basement warm too, but the rec room can be heated by the existing ducts, so I think I am going to take that suggestion. |
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iau461
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by iau461 on Nov 24, 2023 20:06:47 GMT -8
Now that our stove is operational, I want to report on early results, and encourage anyone else with a steel stove in their basement to go ahead and build a RMH down there. Our build is documented at donkey32.proboards.com/thread/4040/dsr3-build-large-bench-fed . It's a little different than what I described above, but not much. Short story is that in late fall, nighttime temps ~30-40F and daytime temps 50-55: - we are having 2 small fires a day, roughly 12 hours apart - burning MUCH less wood than last year - heat in the house is nicely distributed, 75-80 in the basement stove room and 70-72 in the two upper floors. We use a small 6" fan to push heat from the stove room through the HVAC ducts, even without that there are only a couple rooms that get a bit chilly. - heat is steady around the clock. I.e., instead of waking up to a cold house like last year, the a.m. temperature is still 70-72. Yay for thermal mass. The large bed bench holds steady at 85-90. Temps do start to drop if we wait 15 hours before the next fire, so we don't do that. I expect we'll need 3 fires a day mid-winter. But looks like we'll burn roughly half as much as last year, and wake up warm. Basically working as I had hoped. Not sure why fiedia, fuegos, and josephcrawley had different experiences and thought a basement mass heater wouldn't work well, but it's working great. Best wishes to all, Craig |
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