Fire brick quality

[Solomon]

I've been shopping around trying to find firebrick for upcoming DSR2 build and the stuff I'm finding isn't as good as the stuff I  have bought in the past.

In the past, I bought brick that seemed like it was pressed together. It was very pale tan, and the dimensions were very consistent, sharp edges, straight lines, etc.

So here I am two years later wanting to buy some more, and everybody has this new stuff which is darker and more orange in color and appears to be some manner of extruded.

It's full of tiny cracks, the edges aren't straight, and there is some warpage in most dimensions.

Is this stuff any good? I was hoping for straighter stuff to build a nice tight fire box, but I guess I could make the joints a little thicker, if this stuff is expected to be durable enough and I can't find anything else.

I went to all the usual places and this is all that's available. It's like $2.65 a brick. Looking at an 8" DSR2, so 100 to be safe, I guess.

Any thoughts or advice?

[josephcrawley]

Have you checked with Harbison walker? They have locations across the US and sell good products. Not always at the best price. Looks like they have a location in the Portland area.

[Solomon]

There is a lot of stuff in the Portland area being that it's a big city. But I'm 4 hours away, so it's pretty inconvenient. But if I had a trip up there, I would definitely look into it.

The problem is, I like to look at stuff before I buy it, hold it in my hands, see the price, weigh my options.

I don't like walking up to a counter (or via email or phone), tell them what I want, take it home sight unseen, and pay whatever is demanded without knowing ahead of time.

But that's just my personality.

[foxtatic]

Best I can do around here is $3.33 apiece at the hardware stores. And that's pretty low quality 2000F rated stuff.
I take it you're sourcing from industrial refractory vendors? I'm surprised their bricks would be so inconsistent.

[Solomon]

These are from the regional brick seller. I don't seem to have access to any good refractory materials around here.

[martyn]

It seems many of the latest builds, the fire boxes are constructed dry without any bonding material between the bricks, you definitely need good square edge bricks for that method!
I know it is not relevant to you but where I live good fire bricks are $5 a piece.

[Solomon]

Dec 23, 2022 7:06:42 GMT -8 martyn said:

It seems many of the latest builds, the fire boxes are constructed dry without any bonding material between the bricks...

Really, I haven't seen this. I mean, I've seen plenty of trial assemblies done dry, but not final assemblies.

Longevity is my prime concern, I'm thinking of building the core of cast pieces like in some of the Sketchup drawings, fewer joints, possibly better materials, at least for what's available here. The problem remains, little access to castable refractory. Best I can do, I think, is to load up next time I'm Portland.

Pursuant to longevity, I have no experience in castable refractory. 

The problem with living in such a big country with great distances between big cities (on my end of the country) is there isn't a simple recipe of "this works, buy it, from this place."

Another option is Kaocrete, FSS is down in LA. But I get to LA less than Portland. Is kaocrete any good?

[martyn]

You can buy very good quality refractory mix but it might not be the easiest option as you have to make molds, use an efficient vibrating machine and make sure it is cured properly.

You can mix your own to save some money but sourcing the individual components might not be easy for you.

Fire bricks seem to be the most popular method for the fire box although the roof can be more difficult to sort out if it is wider than a brick.

Kiln shelfs are in vogue but expensive and often hard to come by, cast iron is another choice.

Designing the stove to allow for movement will help a lot towards long lasting casements although lots of people operate stoves with no structural cracks but plenty of “cracks”

Ceramic fiber may be losing popularity due to updated health scares but, fire brick backed with ceramic fibre board does seem to be the ‘go to method’.

There is a product called zircon that might offer some positive results for coating any porous refractory product but I have not read any long term results as yet. I am presently experimenting with Zircon and it is holding up very well so far (about 40 hours)

Thomas, on the other forum, has tested lots of materials and is presently using cast iron for the roof of his 8” batch box that is lit for 10 hours a day.

[Solomon]

I talked to the guy at the brick yard and he suggested that he could sell me the components to make my own custom refractory castable mix. Perhaps I should delve deeper into that avenue after the holidays are over.

I'm not concerned about molds, I'm a proficient rough wood worker with tools of my own. I also have a pencil vibrator and planning on building a simple vibrating table.

If the brick yard had the same type of fire brick they had a few years ago when I bought them last, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, but they've changed. Perhaps I should investigate to see if they could get me a pallet of the old stuff. I'm going to need some for the top of the bell anyway.

My experience with ceramic fiber hasn't been stellar. Mine melted. And it's not at all abrasion resistant. It wears way very rapidly if anything touches it at all. That being said, I have seen lots of people talking about insulating with it outside hard fire brick. I'm willing to sacrifice some efficiency on startup for a more durable firebox. 0 ppm CO is great, but no smoke is good enough for me, most of the time.

I got into this "hobby" in large part because I grew up with a 100 year old cast iron stove, that was a very typical "smoke dragon." That and the fact that my father would regularly take us out in the rain and cold to cut firewood, bring that firewood home, and burn it immediately, so we were often burning wet, or even sometimes green wood, producing an incredible amount of smoke, and being incredibly inefficient. That experience soured me toward all that wasted work just because the whole process was so inefficient. Today, in an 8" J-tube, I burn in a week what we burned in a day when I was growing up, and my house is probably twice the size and not much more efficient. Now, I collect wood all year long, wherever I can find it for free, often trash, scrap, or trimmings, and heat the house for effectively free.

[foxtatic]

Somebody suggested Harbison Walker so I contacted them thinking that buying directly from a big supplier would be a cheaper than buying 6 packs at retail. Nope, $5.81 each. And that is me picking them up at their location! Wouldn't be toooo bad for just the core, but wanted them for the inner skin of a brick bell.
Now I'm looking at cast refractory as well.

[josephcrawley]

Dec 27, 2022 8:14:29 GMT -8 foxtatic said:

Somebody suggested Harbison Walker so I contacted them thinking that buying directly from a big supplier would be a cheaper than buying 6 packs at retail. Nope, $5.81 each. And that is me picking them up at their location! Wouldn't be toooo bad for just the core, but wanted them for the inner skin of a brick bell.
Now I'm looking at cast refractory as well.

If you're in the southeast check with Larkin refractory. They are in the Atlanta area and have excellent prices.