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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 18, 2020 0:15:34 GMT -8
Hello everyone, i'm currently thinking of building a BBR that is half-buried into the floor (about 1/2 of the room floor is 1 meter lower than the other) so that the burn chamber and a part of the bell are within the floor body. (sorry for my clumsy language, english's not my native one). drive.google.com/file/d/1Re57e3cLaXVKvSGk_AzPT8dYSWQZ18Yn/view?usp=sharing drive.google.com/file/d/1zoVU0Y_Aa2DLfCGk6MIOb7CCEc3U0HTt/view?usp=sharingThe idea is to use a big part of the floor as thermal mass. Can anyone please help me figure out system parts after the riser bell exhaust (a second bell or maybe some horizontal channel) to maximize the effect? Thank you! PS: also i've been thinking of firebox that is round in section (like a horizontally laid barrel), wouldn't it bring any benefits before rectangular? In theory, vaulted ceiling is good for gas flow and sloped round bottom would do the job of those corner side bricks, no? I'm going to build this stove of rammed clay/sand/wood ash mix, so i think the barrel shape is quite possible to make assuming there is any sense doing so.
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 20, 2020 3:07:01 GMT -8
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 20, 2020 11:28:42 GMT -8
is air ducting going to cool the riser ? what do you think the gains would be ?
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 20, 2020 12:54:54 GMT -8
no, it stands apart of riser, along bell's back wall. idea was in an alternate way to collect heat from inside the bell and transfer it via warming the air in the duct. and duct itself acts as a part of bell's ISA. thus partly similar to bullerjan's pipes. (btw, can you see pics under my links? `cause i can't )
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 21, 2020 7:32:49 GMT -8
can't see any pics on your posts but the links work .I'n not familiar with bullerjan's pipes.I'm a complete beginner here , just finished my first build and you seem to be well informed on the subject my friend.Where are you from if you don't mind my asking ? As for your English it's excellent
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Post by satamax on Aug 21, 2020 9:32:22 GMT -8
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 21, 2020 11:18:12 GMT -8
fuegos, thanks, i'm from south russia. (44.834618N, 38.298004E to be precise:)) i'm completely new here too, though i've been reading this forum for couple years already. speaking of bullerjan, i mean this: www.bullerjan.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Free-Flow-Typ-01-Basic-mit-Feuer.jpg - pretty simple idea, wonder if it's applicable in my case. satamax, thanks for clue, i'll get to read it thoroughly tonight. Maybe find my inspiration. btw, let me address my gratitude and respect to all of you guys here! such fantastic projects, so much work and experience! and again, inspiration for people like myself. awesome community. we don't have anything alike here in russia.
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 21, 2020 13:32:07 GMT -8
ok, i've read it. sadly, couldn't find the beginning of than thread, but as far as i can see there are 4 major issues described there:
1 - a cold, drafty uninhabited space 2 - way too complex exhaust flue path (even including some downwards?) 3 - too much thermal mass 4 - too short and chimney with some elbows
which in my case will be:
1 - an earthbag roundhouse with nearly no unwanted airflows, occupied for couple months already before heater goes in use; 2 - think i got the point here - no underground channels, for they've got to have their sides and bottom insulated which is lots of unnecessary work and cost; 3 - follows #2, thus excluding the floor from thermal mass; 4 - chimney's gonna go straight up for about 6 meters, starting right next to the bell and through center of the roof, having just 1 last meter outside.
considering that, i have two questions left:
1 - i planned the system to be a 8" one. according to BBR spreadsheets it's total heat-managing ISA has to be about 9,4 m2 which is hell of a space to eat in a 6 meter diameter room. even a bell 1x1x2 m barely 9 m2 of ISA. that's why my first intention was to bury it down a bit. but since the floor tends to be too much of a collector, what should i do, oh poor me?
2 - still wondering would that air duct pipe successfully suck cold air from the very bottom of the room, warm it running throughout the bell and release it up then? for, intuitively, it should.
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 22, 2020 2:30:53 GMT -8
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 22, 2020 12:33:57 GMT -8
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 23, 2020 11:52:24 GMT -8
that looks great ! a really ambitious project but possible as well.What are the average winter temperatures there ? my thoughts are that it might be better to build a smaller thermal battery on the surface.As with solar P.V. systems sizing the batteries in relation to the input is fundamental - having a large battery bank & a small amount of panel Watts means you never get the storage up to 100%.Also think about usage - how many M2 do you need to heat ? what about the R value of your structure ?
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 23, 2020 14:31:58 GMT -8
thank you! well, speaking of warming, i guess it's rather about volume m3 than area m2. this house will be about 6 meters diameter (inner) and 4,5 meters high, plus lowered area with appendix, so overall inner volume's gonna be about 100 m3. and R value... 40 cm thick walls of earthbags filled with the following mix: 55% sand 25% earth 10% sawdust 10% lime i don't know what R value it will have but approximate it about 1. so, following peter's bbr spreadsheets i came to 8" system. oh, and average temps in winter are around 0/-5 Celsius. sometimes coming down to -10 and even -20, however, rarely.
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Post by satamax on Aug 23, 2020 21:28:29 GMT -8
multiple bells? Or ondol hypocaust. You can bury your mass, but insulate under and around it. Other solution bell bench. A bench is always useful.
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Post by hadydalaii on Aug 24, 2020 15:44:38 GMT -8
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fuegos
Full Member
not out of the woods yet
Posts: 177
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Post by fuegos on Aug 25, 2020 2:09:20 GMT -8
as Satamax said insulate around & underneath .Radiant heat & convection will be important to reach upstairs.Another idea is to use enamelled stovepipe with a straight run towards the roof , with a 2 or 3 insulated sections for the exit , to get the benefit of any remaining heat . Not sure what others think of this ?
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