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Post by fasardi on Apr 26, 2019 10:30:23 GMT -8
It seems really something i`ll like to see! please when you start making it, don`t forget to take several pictures! I have been thinking a lot in the stove i`m planning in my house, and the complications in making a water tank inside the mass, and making a radiant wall or something like that, plus the frequent electrical cuts in the winter... Peterberg said he prefers simple things, and i`m heading that way. I think i`ll do a 250 mm BBR with a 5 minute riser(it`s a fayrly big house, right now 180 m3, and planning to do 3 more rooms... and really cold weather). And a big bell to go with that, with two skins. Regular red bricks on the inside, and ceramic tiles or stones on the outside to make it look better to my addicted to pinterest wife. Maybe i`ll add an oven right on top of the firebox. I was wondering on how to make the roof of the bell, don`t know if the concrete beams will handle the heat, if they are far from the riser or aislated.
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Post by coastalrocketeer on Apr 27, 2019 11:09:55 GMT -8
I am going to embed pieces of (kanthal?) wire from old burned out wire coil clothes dryer and wall heater elements in the upper mortar courses on the inside of my masonry bell to hang ceramic fiber blanker from to insulate that area of the inside of the exterior masonry wall of the chamber from absorbing heat.
Will straighten a few inches of the wire and flatten a few coils to embed in my mortar on one end. The end sticking out will puncture through the ceramic fiber blanket and then be bent sideways.
With 3” sticking out, I will be able to suspend two inches of blanket from the side walls with about 2 wires per square foot. If I were hanging it from the ceiling, I would probably go with 4 or 5 wires per square foot. I would think that 2” of ceramic fiber blanket would sufficiently protect the roof were it of normal concrete.
You could also do halved vertically 55 gallon drum pieces and then brick around that to match or exceed height, cob over that to fill off to level with your brick walls, then brick over the top of the cob. Might need some thin spacer (a couple or 3 layers of cardboard should work... may smoke until it burns out,) to keep the metal’s different rate of thermal expansion from pushing fixed cob or masonry around and cracking things after everything has dried and gets heated... but it would provide the support and the steel, cob, and brick would all deal with the heat just fine.
You would need to protect normal concrete in the uppernost portion of the bell, I think, especially if the riser is close.
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Post by fasardi on Apr 28, 2019 12:23:17 GMT -8
Thanks! I have to buy some ceramic blanket for the 5 minute riser, and it's expensive, I think I'll try the barrels on top.
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Post by coastalrocketeer on Apr 29, 2019 10:38:30 GMT -8
If you can order from Zoro.com there, I was able to buy a 1”x48”x25 foot roll for around $200 us delivered. I’m sure shipping will add to that cost.
Also learned after I ordered that the 6lb per cubic foot density (cheaper, usually) is a better insulator, than the 8llb per cubic foot stuff that I got. Would have ordered the other if I’d known.
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Post by fasardi on Apr 29, 2019 10:43:16 GMT -8
The page is down right now! But i guess te delivery to Argentina will be more expensive than the blanket itself...
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Post by fasardi on May 7, 2019 8:16:45 GMT -8
I gave it a lot of thougth, and after several changes, came to a deffinitive version (for now...) It will be a BBR10, firebox made with refractory bricks, a five minute riser, a bell made of red bricks of 70 % ISA with a 200 liter drum filled with whater in the top part. That water, if it gets adequately hot (i`ll check it before working on it), will have a serpentine than will feed the electric water heater than is now in use. And maybe if it works well, in a future will have another serpentine to heat some radiators or radiant wall system. Time for the questions! 1- Regarding the five minute riser, i´m planning on doing it with a 1 inch ceramic blanket inside a cilinder of galvanized iron sheet 0.5 mm thick. My doubt is if the galvanized sheet will handle the heat well, and how to make round it (thinking on a galvanized iron wire rounding it) 2- If i make the bell with regular bricks, and a regular mortar (1 part portland 3 parts sand) will it work? my idea is to put slabs later on the outside part, but maybe in a couple of months. The bell shape will be a cone pyramid (don`t know if this shape is understandable for english speakers) so the top part will be aprox a meter away from the riser's end. 3- About the drum, i was thinking on putting it on top of the bell, supporting it with two iron angles from the sides of the bell. I guess the iron will handle the heat and the weight. Don`t know if it will be necessary to put a pillar to support it too. 4- About the top of the bell, i was thinking on leaving the top of the drum out of it, and with 10 cm of distance from the edges of the drum to the walls of the bell, but don`t really know on how to fill that gap. Thinking on ceramic blanket, after that bricks, and silicone heat resistant glue. I have one than can handle 300 ºC and it`s pretty elastic, and another than can handle 1000ºC but i think won`t be elastic at all. 5- About the chimney, my plan it`s to have it outside the house, but don`t know if it has to be on top of the roof, to be affected with all the winds (Hope you can understand what i meant). In that place of the house the roof is 4 meters high. And there are plenty of windy days in my area, can came up to 60/70 km/h some days and sometimes little more.
Well that was long... thanks in advance, your help will keep warm a big family!
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Post by peterberg on May 7, 2019 8:54:43 GMT -8
1- Regarding the five minute riser, i´m planning on doing it with a 1 inch ceramic blanket inside a cilinder of galvanized iron sheet 0.5 mm thick. My doubt is if the galvanized sheet will handle the heat well, and how to make round it (thinking on a galvanized iron wire rounding it) The blanket is reasonably stiff, you won't need anything to keep it in place at the inside of the pipe. When made a little bit too large it will be supporting itself like that. Point is, you'll need a 300 mm diameter steel pipe in order to build a 250 mm riser like that... Don't worry about the steel sheet/pipe, Pinhead ran his heater very hard and couldn't find any degradation after some winters. That superwool is very well suited to this type of insulating purposes.
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Post by fasardi on May 8, 2019 4:19:32 GMT -8
Thanks Peterberg! about question number 5, i saw than if the chimney will be outside it has to be aislated, and if it is in the same room than the stove, could not be aislated at all. I was thinking too, if it can be inside of the bell, obviusly with the opening in the bottom, like a straw in a glass of water (or Margarita if you want). I`m planning on doing an inspection opening in the bell so cheking it wouldn`t be a problem.
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Post by peterberg on May 8, 2019 6:27:12 GMT -8
...about question number 5, i saw than if the chimney will be outside it has to be aislated, and if it is in the same room than the stove, could not be aislated at all. The chimney should be insulated from where it leaves the room/house. In case it goes through a wall and up, all that is not inside the room should be insulated. Having said that, the chimney need to end well above the highest point of the roof as well. One could make their own insulated chimney by inserting superwool inside a larger pipe (in your case 300 mm dia) and insert a 250 mm pipe inside that. Don't forget the pipes need to be mounted with the female (or crimp) ends down so any condensation fluid will stay inside the pipe. I was thinking too, if it can be inside of the bell, obviusly with the opening in the bottom, like a straw in a glass of water (or Margarita if you want). I`m planning on doing an inspection opening in the bell so cheking it wouldn`t be a problem. It can be done like that, but the part that's inside the bell need to be insulated as well. Otherwise the cool gases that pass through will be heated up by the hot pipe, even after the fire is gone it will transport heat out this way.
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Post by fasardi on May 8, 2019 6:59:06 GMT -8
Thanks Peterberg, clearly if i want to save on tubes, i`ll have to do the chimney in the same room, and insulate only the outside part. Will see if i can make it that way.
Any thoughts on how to deal with the top of the bell and the drum? Here´s an image of what i`m thinking on doing
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Post by coastalrocketeer on May 13, 2019 9:20:18 GMT -8
Beautiful drawing! For fastest heating the Barrel could be lower so that more of it’s surface area is available for heat transfer to the water.
You can support the barrel on a tower of cross stacked bricks to put more thermal mass directly below it, and this should also allow you to just set the barrel in place at the right height and seal around it at the top with cob.
Cross stacking with bricks (or suitable steel scrap, like brake drum rotors) inside the bell, should increase the effective ISA and thermal mass allowing smaller overall structure if that is beneficial to your installation.
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Post by coastalrocketeer on May 13, 2019 9:25:36 GMT -8
Looking closer, I see that the riser is directly under the Barrel... this would make stacking bricks to support the barrel a little more challenging, but it should still be possible to build a supporting structure, perhaps a metal frame, thick enough, and far enough from the riser top to survive a decent amount of time.
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Post by fasardi on May 14, 2019 6:20:19 GMT -8
Looking closer, I see that the riser is directly under the Barrel... this would make stacking bricks to support the barrel a little more challenging, but it should still be possible to build a supporting structure, perhaps a metal frame, thick enough, and far enough from the riser top to survive a decent amount of time. Yes, having the tank there seem to be a problem, and not very cost-effective. And since i`m not an experienced builder, the inclined walls seem a little too challenging for my skills. I`ve planned a diferent bell now, but i`m not really sure than the water will get hot enough, but the tank will be 20 cm high (on top of a pile of bricks or something like that), and will be more easily accesible. The area where the tank will be is highlighted. The top of the bell in the tank area will be a metal sheet covered from the inside with superwool (i got a good deal on superwool, USD 75 for 4.4 m2). I´ve another question, because of the size of the firebox, it`s very difficult for me to make the top. It has to be 36 cm width and the bigger tile i can get is 30 cm. So i`m thinking on putting some T metal bar to support the bricks, or a galvanized steel sheet with superwool on the interior, but i don`t know if superwool will hold well with the direct flame. I read on the forum (i think it was Donkey who said it)than regular redbricks can hold on in the firebox, so i`m thinking on using them for all sides except the back part (the one with the portal). But i don`t know if it`s better to put them standing on the side (like the batchrocket.eu brick cores) or to put them like the way you make a wall. I know than less mass in the firebox it`s better, but since they will be covered in superwool from the outside i think i can`t add anything to support the structure.
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Post by Orange on May 16, 2019 2:26:31 GMT -8
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Post by fasardi on May 16, 2019 4:03:30 GMT -8
Thanks! it answers almost all my questions!
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