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Post by coastalrocketeer on Jan 10, 2018 5:09:43 GMT -8
Also a set of vertical brick "grids" after entry to bell, with evenly spaced holes, offset from one grid to the next, and spaced a suitable short distance apart but far enough that it still does not restrict gas flow, could both dissipate kinetic energy, and induce/allow/promote stratification, even with a system CSA hot gas stream pointed right at it, and allow the rest of the bell past the 3rd or 4th "grid" wall, to remain well stratified no matter how hard the stove is roaring.
A simple suspended 1" thick refractory "baffle plate" with a 1 or 2 inch gap around the edges placed at sufficient distance to maintain free gas flow and allow some initial stratification, letting the gasses thorough to the main chamber all around it's edges, could significantly reduce kinetic energy imparted into the main chamber of the bell if the incoming gas stream is directed somewhere near it's center.
(Disclaimer: These are just my ideas, may be completely or partially wrong, and your milage in implementing them may vary. To discuss them outside the realm of "making bells smaller" please visit my separate post titled "optimizing heat transfer in stove design through modification of stratification levels up or down in bells and other heat transfer chambers through the induction or dissipation of kinetic energy within the gas flow, via the optimized design of gas passage and mass collection structures, and other means." to reply... :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 5:09:49 GMT -8
Hi coastalrocketeer , thanks for your ideas ! I've watched your video about the huge hot water tank, I think the closest design to that is the one of Groume-Grijmalio with a cylindric heater. I know pyrophile posted a picture of this design some time ago, maybe by searching his posts you can find it. The hardest thing I think is designing the layout of the bricks with an idea in mind ! If you could translate these ideas in a heater design that would be great ! Regards, EDIT : I think another important thing as well is to minimize friction because our heaters rely only on natural draft, unlike the strong regulated pressure from water circuits. |
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Post by coastalrocketeer on Jan 10, 2018 5:19:35 GMT -8
Hi coastalrocketeer, thanks for your ideas ! I've watched your video about the huge hot water tank, I think the closest design to that is the one of Groume-Grijmalio with a cylindric heater. I know pyrophile posted a picture of this design some time ago, maybe by searching his posts you can find it. The hardest thing I think is designing the layout of the bricks with an idea in mind ! If you could translate these ideas in a heater design that would be great ! Regards, I understand I ramble a lot and it can be hard to visualize what I am trying to convey with words alone... My ideas are natal and just being initially fleshed out at the moment, but I believe at this point in re-reading through it and clarifying parts of what I wrote before, some of aspects of them have the potential to optimize heat transfer and storage in small bell systems, which are prone to turbulence with high gas flow rates. Some other bell related theorems that may be applicable in rhinking about how bells do what they do, and how it could be improved or optimized for specific purposes: A good bell is a "low kinetic energy, gas pool structure, for extracting, and/or concentrating, heat" With very good insulation, a bell could be designed, that concentrates extreme heat in the gasses it contains, but does not extract or store significant heat from those gasses. (This one is not likely to have direct application in our designs, but is possibly useful in understanding principles and effects of both insulation placement and kinetic energy dissipating or inducing structures within bells. Turbulence and high gas velocity promote even mixing, and reduce or prevent stratification. Stratification localizes heat transfer toward the TOP of a bell or other "low velocity gas pool" structure. Turbulence/even mixing of gasses promotes even heat transfer over the areas where it occurs, and stratification is absent. I will post new threads here for the less "on topic" ideas of my "bell encased open top water tank heating optimization through minimizing and maximizing turbulent/mixed gas flow or stratification in different regions of the heat collection bell", "baffle plate kinetic energy diffuser", and "diffusion gird wall array" ideas as I have time to flesh them out in my mind further and draw up diagrams for those needing a visual reference to understand the gas flow. (I edited my last two posts above this one to improve clarity and correct some typos. I'll not post about these ideas here any more except as to how they can be applied directly to making bells smaller, the original topic) |
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Post by coastalrocketeer on Jan 10, 2018 6:24:56 GMT -8
Edited the post above this one too... I think the offset columns and "offset grid wall" ideas are the parts that are most likely to have application to making bells smaller... And I just realized an offset grid could be horizontal and keep stratification, or turbulence/even mixing above (or below) it's self.
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