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Post by satamax on Nov 30, 2017 5:42:12 GMT -8
Often, i get the , "bells take too much space" comment. Well, despite my reluctance to make the volume of a bell smaller. I have sugested a solution to a few posters at permies. This! Increase isa, without increasing or even decreasing the volume. ![](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/7a/bd/b17abd4f2b03b1a36e039a8e6aeed4ed--wall-finishes-brick-walls.jpg)
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Post by Jura on Nov 30, 2017 6:35:05 GMT -8
I wanted to apply a similar brick laying pattern, just one thing makes me to hold on my horses, ie. uncertainty as to the issue of increased resistance to a gas flow
Will such protrusions not stand for too much of a hindrance to it?
or it's negligible to a proper bell functioning ?
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Post by pinhead on Nov 30, 2017 7:39:45 GMT -8
I wanted to apply a similar brick laying pattern, just one thing makes me to hold on my horses, ie. uncertainty as to the issue of increased resistance to a gas flow Will such protrusions not stand for too much of a hindrance to it? or it's negligible to a proper bell functioning ? If the bell has sufficient volume to act as a bell, the surface shape will have negligible effect on flow resistance.
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Post by Orange on Nov 30, 2017 11:40:34 GMT -8
you can put pillars inside, they increase ISA quite a lot. people percive volume so a long short bench looks smaller than tall narrow bell. ![](https://s33.postimg.org/fvqqrl8bz/image.jpg) ![](https://s33.postimg.org/46mr3mp33/image.jpg)
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serg247
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Post by serg247 on Nov 30, 2017 14:59:24 GMT -8
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Post by Jura on Dec 1, 2017 2:43:08 GMT -8
TFS. Have you seen kind of stove in operation? Does't those 2 pipe in the firebox disturb cumber loading it? What's the outer shell material? Is the secondary air inlet situated really before the port?
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Post by Jura on Dec 1, 2017 2:52:30 GMT -8
If the bell has sufficient volume to act as a bell, the surface shape will have negligible effect on flow resistance. Fine.. now we shall define what is the sufficient bell volume. I can recall 5* heatriser CSA caveat, but its about surface not volume.
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serg247
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Post by serg247 on Dec 1, 2017 3:21:59 GMT -8
TFS. Have you seen kind of stove in operation? Does't those 2 pipe in the firebox disturb cumber loading it? What's the outer shell material? Is the secondary air inlet situated really before the port? I find it difficult to answer using Google translator.
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Post by Jura on Dec 1, 2017 3:29:13 GMT -8
You may answer in russian. But maybe by a private message so as not to spam the thread
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 3:41:33 GMT -8
The design in the picture increases the surface only by a few percent. Something like an egg carton would give much more surface.
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serg247
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Post by serg247 on Dec 1, 2017 4:35:22 GMT -8
Buttresses (kontrforce) Grum-Grzhimailo increase the surface 2-4.5 times.
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Post by esbjornaneer on Dec 1, 2017 4:51:02 GMT -8
Is the secondary air inlet situated really before the port? It looks like a standard batch box p-channel to me. I have one of those and confirm that it opens before the port.
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Post by serg247 on Dec 1, 2017 5:23:31 GMT -8
In my SKP assembled tested nodes for this form factor. With options.
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Post by pinhead on Dec 1, 2017 7:54:31 GMT -8
If the bell has sufficient volume to act as a bell, the surface shape will have negligible effect on flow resistance. Fine.. now we shall define what is the sufficient bell volume. I can recall 5* heatriser CSA caveat, but its about surface not volume. The 5x heat riser CSA recommendation refers to the CSA of the bell as well (not the surface area of the inside of the bell). I don't know specific volume numbers, unfortunately, for a "minimum" size in order for a bell to function. Technically, any volume with an inlet and outlet at a lower level than the ceiling will act as a bell... However, stratification and therefore effectiveness is increased as volume is increased. Increased height will further increase stratification and therefore effectiveness.
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Post by Jura on Dec 1, 2017 10:51:49 GMT -8
The 5x heat riser CSA recommendation refers to the CSA of the bell as well (not the surface area of the inside of the bell). I don't know specific volume numbers, unfortunately, for a "minimum" size in order for a bell to function. Technically, any volume with an inlet and outlet at a lower level than the ceiling will act as a bell... However, stratification and therefore effectiveness is increased as volume is increased. Increased height will further increase stratification and therefore effectiveness. I'm plodding through the book of Grum-Grimaylo trying to understand the physics and kinetics of gas flow and heat exchange. Once I'm done i'll try to present here what I managed to comprehend.
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