dvawolk
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DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 7, 2017 12:17:25 GMT -8
Today I added 25x125cm vermiculite board on the right side of heat riser... I mortared the last row of bricks on inside layer. These are angle cut for a nicer flow of gasses.     This is it for now... Next are chamotte slabs, chimney connection. I am thinking of making a small fire at that time. After that follows last row of red bricks and ceiling above all... And after that decorative plaster... Comments welcome! Have a nice weekend, you all... |
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Post by Jura on Jul 7, 2017 15:25:09 GMT -8
I'm wondering what will be the plaster content you are about to apply.
What kind of clay?
How many layers are you planning?
How long will you wait before apply the finish layer?
What thickness of the base coat?
Enjoy the weekend, too!
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 7, 2017 22:37:31 GMT -8
I'm wondering what will be the plaster content you are about to apply. What kind of clay? How many layers are you planning? How long will you wait before apply the finish layer? What thickness of the base coat? Enjoy the weekend, too! Hi, Jura. Firs I will paint the brickwork with thin coat of clay slip to make a better bonding. Then I will mix clay slip (which is quite clean) with quartz sand and straw chopped in 5cm length. This layer will be about 2cm in thickness. When it is leathery to the touch, I will add clay+sand layer and push yute mesh (1*1cm) in it an plaster over it to hide it totally... In the last layer I will mix casein+borax mix to harden it more so that it won't dust... This is my approximate plan... I might add horse manure in the last layer and then I don't have to use yute mesh? I did a similar plaster on my build at home and in a yurt, but I am still new to this - so suggestions are welcome... I do know that plaster finish with horse manure fibers is a good quality. Also add-in casein*borax mix ( described in Clay culture book from Carole Crews) makes a really hard and durable plaster... |
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dvawolk
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DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 7, 2017 22:40:02 GMT -8
And I don't think that I will wait - I think it is not a problem to start plastering right away - I think I will have to wetten the bricks again before starting to plaster...
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Post by Jura on Jul 8, 2017 10:28:10 GMT -8
First I will paint the brickwork with thin coat of clay slip to make a better bonding. Well.. yes I heard it was also prudent to water them significantly before applying the slip. (messy and drippy affair - I know) Then I will mix clay slip (which is quite clean) with quartz sand and straw chopped in 5cm length. This layer will be about 2cm in thickness. what proportion? I presume the clay is dug out, right? When it is leathery to the touch, I will add clay+sand layer and push yute mesh (1*1cm) in it an plaster over it to hide it totally... In the last layer I will mix casein+borax mix to harden it more so that it won't dust... Have you estimated the amount of casein addition? ? (I had a doubtful pleasure to pay a visit a house where it was applied and the walls stunk like ... ) Hmm... what is the idea of using borax ? While in strawbales renders it had a biocidal effect, but how about this case? I might add horse manure in the last layer and then I don't have to use yute mesh? not so long ago I asked @yasintoda whether he was going to use any mesh but the answer was no as he had used the donkey dung. eh...Those lucky southern nations with an easy access to precious resources  Well.. I was taught to use mesh in angles and any tension subjected places. I believe we do not have such strong tensions while plastering the stoves. I did a similar plaster on my build at home and in a yurt, but I am still new to this - so suggestions are welcome... We were instructed to use a water from 2 summer day of grass fermenting for the final fine coat (Tom Rijven technique of strengthening the plaster with cellulosic polymer chains ). He explains it in here (2 in french only the 3rd in eng) 1, 2, 3I do know that plaster finish with horse manure fibers is a good quality. Also add-in casein*borax mix ( described in Clay culture book from Carole Crews) makes a really hard and durable plaster... We natural builder are in permanent love with polymers BTW. U can not imagine how well I get you with your stance about being fed up with cutting bricks with a hand angle grinder. We bought some perfect priced bricks for clay ceramic kiln of elevated durability. Gosh... |
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dvawolk
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DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 9, 2017 13:04:40 GMT -8
Well.. yes I heard it was also prudent to water them significantly before applying the slip. (messy and drippy affair - I know) I usually spray it with water. But using sponge is a messy thing. what proportion? I presume the clay is dug out, right? Oh it is hard to talk proportions... In volume I use more sand than clay slip. Clay is close to pottery grade. I think if you use pottery clay it is easiest to feel grunching of sand when the mix is good. If you don't feel like crunching sand on itself it is not enough sand in it... Have you estimated the amount of casein addition? ? (I had a doubtful pleasure to pay a visit a house where it was applied and the walls stunk like ... ) Hmm... what is the idea of using borax ? While in strawbales renders it had a biocidal effect, but how about this case? I will go with about 5% of casein in water. And about 1.5% borax. One can use it without borax, but it adds more waterproofed material... So do they say... Replies from others would be interesting, too... @donkey? We were instructed to use a water from 2 summer day of grass fermenting for the final fine coat (Tom Rijven technique of strengthening the plaster with cellulosic polymer chains ). He explains it in here (2 in french only the 3rd in eng) 1, 2, 3Thanks for the interesting read.. Regards, Klemen |
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dvawolk
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DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 13, 2017 4:58:17 GMT -8
Here is progress from last few days. I closed the bell with 4 chamotte slabs. To cut them I drawn pattern on cardboard...  I had some trouble with fitting it to chimney flue but I managed it somehow...   Over them I put "tavelloni". But just on the right side. On the chimney side I covered all with ceramic insulation and put aluminum foil over. Then I covered all, tavelloni included, with concrete slab with glass fibers inside. Thinking back it would be easier just to make concrete without tavelloni.  Today I added a bottom row of red brick splits. But the main part will be clay (loam) plaster.     And something to remember the builder (hopefully good memories :-))  |
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 18, 2017 9:57:41 GMT -8
Here is progress from today. First i wet the bricks and then painted all surfaces with clay slip. Then is mixed clay+ sand (close to 1 : 4) and added straw... It would be better to have this mix from few days before so that straw would be more pliable... But it was still okay to work with...     I think i should wetten the bricks even more than i did... Will see tomorrow how it "cured".... |
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Jul 24, 2017 7:11:47 GMT -8
Hi, All. Today's progress. I did a finishing plaster layer. The last layer had some cracks at specific places. Still not enough sand in the mix. This info shouldn't be too useful for others as each clay is different... Mine is really fine clay... Instead of mix clay:sand= 1:4 i used 1:6 today... When using washed horse manure i used clay:sand:manure fibers= 1:3:2.. Today we pressed footprints of the family into the plaster, added some text (" Each path starts with a first step...") and sculpted the silhouette of the sun... As this last layer is mixed with fibers and i added more sand (c:s:fibers=1:3:2), i hope that there will be no cracks when it dries... After drying we decided to paint the sitting area, text, and maybe footprints with oil mix (tung+linen oil mix). Everything else will be painted with liquid glass (sodium or potassium - it is yet to be decided) which gives a lighter tone... I do have a question regarding the painting the last layer with oil/liquid glass... What would you prefer? What are pros/cons when using sodium or potassium liquid glass?. I used oil on my heater and it really gives a durable finish... What about liquid glass? I only painted a testing sample so i have not much experiences.... Best regards, Klemen     |
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Aug 18, 2017 21:03:13 GMT -8
Hi, all.
Not much to add, but here it follows...
The finishing layer had quite some cracks but I have no photo of them. I think I should ad even more sand to the finishing layer.
Also I should wait for the coarse layer to dry completely. Then I would fill in the cracks and only after that I should add a finishing plaster..
Anyway, I filled the cracks and brushed the whole surface with a damp sponge.
It is now dry (well, light in color) and it looks good..
As of painting for protection.. I did some research and I made a final decision.
The bench part will be oiled first. Also the letters an feet tracks those last for a better visibility because the oil will give a darker wet look.
Everything else will be painted with diluted potassium sulphate (K). My tests showed that Sodium sulphate is not that good when the humidity comes to it. But it is a better option when building with chamotte flour when building insides in the stove (I didn't use it).
This is it for now... I am waiting until the next week and then I oil it.
Regards, Klemen
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Post by Jura on Aug 19, 2017 11:04:34 GMT -8
...Not much to add, but here it follows... Thanks for the follow up. I wondered when the cracks will appear. (sorry that not "if", i'm no that conceited :-) But I plastered quite some surfaces of strawbale walls) The finishing layer had quite some cracks but I have no photo of them. I think I should ad even more sand to the finishing layer. I believe adding more sand wouldn't have helped either (it could only lead to the future dusting off the finish plaster). as supposedly those cracks in it are what we call structural, ie appear exactly in the places where the cracks of interior layer occurs. It would be lovely if you post some more photos of the painting results. Would you feel like sharing the pieces of info about application of the potassium sulphate based paint? or you happened to misuse the word sulphate instead of silicate? |
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Aug 19, 2017 11:56:13 GMT -8
Thanks for the follow up. I wondered when the cracks will appear. (sorry that not "if", i'm no that conceited :-) But I plastered quite some surfaces of strawbale walls) It is funny that when I was tossing together a small rmh in my yurt (it really was a quickie) I had less problems with cracks. But here where I really take care... OH well ;-) It would be lovely if you post some more photos of the painting results. Would you feel like sharing the pieces of info about application of the potassium sulphate based paint? Will post them when it is oiled/painted.. I will not make paint but only a liquid that penetrates and binds outer Layer of plaster - color will stay almost the same, just slightly darker.. ( much much much less darker as when using oil). Prior to application I will dilute One part waterglass to 3 or 4 parts water. The proportion depends on the actual plaster.. It should be diluted to penetrate inside easily otherwise it makes just some kind of gloss on the surface... Will post progress of oiling and waterglass application... Regards, Klemen |
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Post by Jura on Aug 19, 2017 12:13:48 GMT -8
It is funny that when I was tossing together a small rmh in my yurt (it really was a quickie) I had less problems with cracks. But here where I really take care... OH well ;-) you know... those horrible Murphy's laws are so damned right. ;-) Today I just wanted to show how to cut bricks for the octagonal heat riser. I did not go as smoothly as when I do it not for presentation reason... Btw. in one of your post you translated a proverb. as far as understand slovenian lng the noun "put" stands for "trip" rather than "path" I love this proverb so..that's why I remember you to have mentioned it. |
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Post by Jura on Aug 20, 2017 5:52:15 GMT -8
dvawolk, Klemen I have a question as to positioning the white oven. but firstably.. have you had any notice from the owners about the temp range they get in it? I'm about to install a cast iron one in my current built and was wondering whether it wouldn;t be better to place it higher in the zone of higher temps of the bell and cover its upper side with some accumulative material (or just shamotte). My core will be elevated 40 cm so i was thinking placing it at the height of 150 cm. The reason is I do not want the firebox to lose energy (AFAIK we shall not take energy from the core but after it)
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dvawolk
Full Member
DSR2 125mm open system (actual project)
Posts: 271
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Post by dvawolk on Aug 20, 2017 6:46:42 GMT -8
"Pot" in Slovenian can have both meanings...
As for White oven, I havent fire it yet.I need to put a sealing rope around the door.
I will write down the temperature that is reached in White Oven.
I doubt that it takes away much of heat from the Core. First it is 5cm chamotte, then dead air gap of about 7cm and then metal floor from White Oven....
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