fireplace to batch box conversion

[satamax]

I forgot, you really need to draw, plan and calculate ahead of time. Making a "brick" object in sketchup, and building with this can help.

[yhomega]

The guy in grasse can do the brick at 0.6 euro each, but Im not sure if I can use thoses for the riser/batch box.
At leroy merlin they sell refratory brick for 1,3 euro
Regular brick is 0.6
prosiref is a bit pricey but if it's the way to go!

I will go with double skin. I think I could put a copper piping between the two skin for water heating.

Are you refering to this alex build? donkey32.proboards.com/thread/1973/8-215mm-double-bells-built?page=2

for doors on leboncoin it should be easy to get, thanks

[satamax]

I was referring to that build.

Do the second bell in normal brick. Or better, normal outside, firebricks on the inside. But better count what you need before. I think the big lot of bricks from the guy in Oppede is a good deal if you can get it half price. You can always resell the rest after. The 1.3 euros bricks from lepoy perlin, What is it's max temp? May be good for the bell, but for the core. Hard dense firebrick for the firebox. Insulating firebricks for the heat riser for example. You need 40 IFB for a 6 incher.

For the walls; as i have drawn it, not to scale, you need 360 firebricks approximately. Let's say 500 for the whole build, between cuts, unexpected last minute modifications etc. That's 650, with pelinpinpin firebricks. Just to put things into perspective. Plus the slab above. Don't know if you have a tipper, but it might be worth getting the ones in Oppede. Except that the lot is way too big. There's more than 1000 bricks in there. And you would be in for several trips.

[yhomega]

I have spend many hours trying to find a solution for the heat riser :/
Saw the perlite/alumine/water glass mix but it's pricey
Insulated fire brick are not available where I live. If I order online the shipping is really high
if I use insulated cement, after I have to insulate it using superwool. And again it's not cheap :/

I will give a call on monday to prosiref (not siporex) to see if they can do some alternative shipping method

Have a good week end and thanks for your help

[satamax]

Yhomega, siporex doesn't work for a riser. I know, i have tried.


Have you asked prosiref?

Last quote they have done for me, 18 euros of packing, and 34.20 of shipping for 60 kilos. That HT, so That's about 62 vat incl.

[yhomega]

I wanted to say prosiref not siporex -_-

I will call on monday and check out if this www.prosiref-boutique.com/-sv3522011030--303--a.htm
or this www.prosiref-boutique.com/-classe23--171--a.htm can do the job.

it's not a lot of money, but when you adds up every bits, it starts to be a bit expensive for me
well, better do it right do it once I guess

[satamax]

The split bricks are not rated for high enough a temperature. 1000C° is no good for a heat riser.

The IFB should do the job for the heat riser. And they're not that expensive. You could also do your firebox walls with it, and splits to protect it.

I have used siporex in that case, and it works.

donkey32.proboards.com/post/18858/thread

Tho, i have to reinforce the left wall siporex (air entrained concrete) left bare, has cracked badly.

I would do things another way now. Use insulating firebrick if i can afford it. In a previous build, i have used those bare, and it works wonders. Just make sure you can replace the V at the bottom. Or use either siporex or insulating firebrick, with a lining of splits. But there's a detail, i would cut the V ifb, so the splits for the sides can rest vertically on them. So it makes life easier when replacing. And cut the V's lining splits so they touch the side splits and hold them. It's all details you get with experience. But that's life.

Another detail, if i would reuse AAC (siporex) for the firebox again, i think boxing it with sheet metal, and adding some perlite or vermiculite would do good at insulating more and holding it together.

[yhomega]

All the link for pictures got broken so I made a google album. There is a comment for each picture
goo.gl/photos/W1nVDk6tdb2W7SuC8
While doing the sketchup I came with few question :

do you recommand 150 or 180 diameter chimney?

I don't know if I should keep some air between the two skin



SIA is about 4.3m2 instead of 5.3.
I have read somewhere peterberg saying that if the wall are made of metal, SIA can be reduced. Here with the cast iron top I think it help to correct the SIA. 

Total wall surface to build 6.65m2, it is 261 bricks. (brick 220 long, 110 height), I would need a couple more for the firebox and the oven, so let's say 400 to be on the safe side

I hope you enjoy

[EDIT] crap something broken all picture are not showing so here is the link for the google album goo.gl/photos/W1nVDk6tdb2W7SuC8

[satamax]

Well, chimney, as system size, a 150mm riser, 150MM chimney i would say. How much surface do you have to heat?

How's the house's insulation?

Well, if you insist in having the firebox on the floor, make it stick out, and do a top loading. You put a glass door on the front, with air intake, but that one is used just for cleanup and inspection. You put a steel slab with two hinges on the top, so you can load from the top. Trust me on that one, kneeling on the floor for loading is crap!


You say 110cm high. For a 150 system, that's a very low, if you do the right height riser. Plus, in this case, doing a sidewinder. I don't know how it would work reducing the height of the riser. You could increase the length of the riser, doing a broken riser.

donkey32.proboards.com/thread/1023/accidental-discovery

Another thing i have just imagined for you. If you want to do a top load batch, you could make the heat riser out of insulating firebricks, and integrate it in the bell's front wall. So you have more room for the top load door.

[yhomega]

House insulation is not very good (1980 build maison phénix, isolated steal dtructure) 85m2
Im planning to do a Solar heating system. Stove Will be for cold days, cooking, relax with à wood fire...

Prosiref Will do a new quote for the shipping I just called them

Regarding the batch on the floor it is to keep the height low (1m for the riser, 30cm for the room above) total height un my SketchUp is about 140cm. Your loading technique is very good!


I have talk to an experienced builder And he is really confident to do the build (I was not)
he is available in 2 weeks time so I have some more time to find all the parts.

[Deleted]

I have provided lots of info about making refractory on the cheap.

[yhomega]

thanks Karl, but I read throught a couple of your topic, but english is not my first language and I'm not chemist :/
if you had a basic recipy or a youtube video to follow the steps, it would be awesome

[satamax]

Yhomega, in my opinion, you don't need 30cm above. If your ISA is below average. And your chimney has a good draft. 15 is aplenty. I have even done less on a 6 incher. I thought in your sketchup, the top was at 110cm.

One thing you haven't spoken about. The vane in the chimney, so you don't loose the heat, when the fire is out. Peter says, stall the air movement with the air intake. But sometimes, it's not possible.

[yhomega]

thanks for the vane it was not on my buying list

www.ebay.fr/itm/Tuyau-de-poele-Conduit-fumee-Clapet-detranglement-Senotherm-150-x-250-mm/182159879498?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150313114020%26meid%3Da23f687e92434d9d81a45b36f57fdd0e%26pid%3D100338%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D152019168575
something like this should do the job I belive

[satamax]

20% de fuite 20% of leaking. It's not completely closing. Dangerous if they close completely. But it's what we need!