I've been trying to get the scoop for years. The feedback I have received from visitors was that the IntensiFire and Wittus were putting out the most heat. For a brief moment, the builder was a member over on Hearth.com. Not sure he still checks in there.
FYI ......We welcome folks who have a interest in this technology and design to collaborate with us to produce cleaner burning solid fueled appliances. We also understand the desire for knowledge and a free INTERNET. As the design is patented and protected we have the legal means and resources to protect any infringements against it to the utmost extent of the law worldwide. Please be advised of our intent to do so. Again questions about this design can be directed to either Jason or myself. Here are some places where you can find more info on this topic.
I also am working together with Niels Wittus and you are correct in your assumptions about heat output which is very important in any Hearth Appliance. Some critical differences between the Intensifire and the Twin Fire is the cost and what it can burn. Wittus has always focused on the High End Contemporary market because of his location and the ability of the market to bear the associated costs. Out West we have more of a "Can Do Attitude" Obadiah's has always had a focus on those who were looking for the biggest bang for their bucks, with the sales of many types of Heating Appliances. We are the largest seller of Wood Burning Cookstoves and Biomass Boilers in North America if not the world now. Our intentions are to offer this technology to folks on several different levels. 1. Retrofitting existing old pre EPA stoves, that millions are still using so that they can burn them cleanly. Obadiah's was part of the EPA HPBA Stove Change Out Pilot Program in Libby MT. many years ago and did 70% of the stoves changed out. 2. Offering Barrel Stove Kits for folks who cant afford a new high dollar EPA stove but need to heat their structures. 3. Launching our own line of Modular Stoves that will be available in various levels of sophistication for folks with various income levels. We will have clean burning stoves for every budget. 4. Working together with existing manufactures to allow them to use our technology under license to bring their product line into EPA compliance. 5. Introduce new products that provide solutions to many issues that face the world, such as clean burning cookstoves for 3rd world countries. 6. Small scale Biomass Co-generation plants for remote Islands of the world to deal with the rubbish issues and stop the dumping of trash into the Oceans of the world and resolve the landfill problems of dealing with waste products. 7. We are also kicking around many other ideas such as Thermoelectric, Domestic Hot Water Systems, Clean Burning Rubber Burners and Electrical Production. Thanks
The last patent shown in my previous post is from 2014 : it is really a downdraft stove. Side draft disappeared. If tis patent appeared, I suppose that it means that the previous patent was not as good...One musn't forget that an official test has nothing to do with reality : who needs so much power? In the real life, you need less power, and problems begin...At high power, everything works, it is easy...But, at usual power... It is always interesting to read patents because suddenly problems are mentionned that were not supposed to exist with a such extraordinary, wonderfull stove, the best in the world, etc, etc... Benoit
Are you kidding, Woodychain? Or maybe, I don't understand very well your message as I don't speak english very well. Maybe you didn't understand where you are? Here, we share knoledge, patents, experiments and so on. We won't buy your stuff! Maybe, we could build it to learn more, estimate pros and cons. There are also other and maybe better downdraft stoves...
If you are threatening anybody with ridiculous legal claims, we should call a moderator ...
( Was I a bit nervous? )
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2015 12:46:19 GMT -8 by pyrophile
The spirit of this forum is profoundly altruistic. We are here to share, learn, grow as builders. Not hoard.
A good idea doesn't care where it came from. And laying claim to one because you are the first or only person interested in 'winning' the patent rat race enough to play such BS legal games… well, i guess you have the right to do so.
but please, take your threat-promo-plug elsewhere.
my two bits worth
Last Edit: Jun 30, 2015 21:06:08 GMT -8 by patamos
It is not my intent to offend and I am sorry that I came across as such, please forgive. However anyone who has invested the time and energy to develop a product and take the time to patent a design or an idea does so to protect it against infringement. Every product I offer on my website is protected by a patent, for very good reason. I did not realize that this was considered "hoarding" or was living in a "Rat Race" I see it more as survival in a dog eat dog world. Clarifying our intentions is in keeping with what I was raised to believe was integrity, honesty and being forthright. I obviously am in the wrong place here. I made a clear invitation to those in this forum to those who wish to collaborate on this technology and instructions on how to do so. We welcome those who are interested in such a venture and are willing to compensate those who also care to invest the time and money to make this venture a reality. Where I come from that is called being fair and compensation is how it has been done since men climbed out of the slime pit. Few folks I have met in my 50 plus years do much for free. If your going to take the time to build and experiment with our design, "to estimate the pros and cons" you do so to do what? You already said with your own words " We won't buy your stuff!" As we are making a substantial investment in bringing this to market, we also have made the investment in protecting it. I guess I thought I was in America and this is a Capitalist Country and not a Communist one? Or maybe I'm wrong there too? As I said we are looking at multiple aspects of how we can provide the technology to the masses at an affordable price and allowing folks to keep their pre EPA stoves and not have to invest in an upgrade. Those that wish to build their own can also do so by purchasing a barrel stove kit. As much as we'd like to save the world from greed and corruption it still cost money to live in a overly regulated world and pass EPA and UL testing and certifications, unless maybe we could just pass the hat here and you folks could help out with the funding? Thank you
This forum is about sharing knowledge on stoves. It isn't the place to promote a patented product, we are only interested in open source technology. When your products are guarded against infringement we are not really interested in those. Understanding how it works is not the same as copying.
By the way, there are people who are doing things for free. One of them is Larry Winiarski, the original inventor of the rocket stove who gave his invention away for free. I wish you good luck with your business and honestly hope you would make good money.
I never wanted to promote or market our product here, that was never my intention, merely to invite like minded folks to collaborate as it has been brought to my attention by our team who monitors the Internet looking for possible patent infringements that there is activity here on this site and we should investigate your intentions further. I am well aware of the Rocket Mass and stove technology. Paul Wheaton of Missoula Montana is involved in Sustainability and teaches folks how to live sustainable lifestyles. www.permies.com/t/44266/rocket-stoves/rocket-mass-heater-kickstarter I celebrate Paul and his efforts to provide this information to the masses and have shared it with many folks over the years. I have also shared many of my designs such as passive solar additions with others for no reward. In fact I am a Volunteer Fire Fighter and risk my life to protect others lives and property at no compensation whatsoever. So please understand something here, your preaching to the choir....... I also teach folks how to live sustainable and have done so for almost 15 yrs. now. However it was brought to my attention that your forum here has posted our patent on your forum and members have actively made comments here that they have been "trying to understand what the scoop is" and how it works. Coments have been made that there is no intent to buy anything. I also have been attacked here, so I see your forum as antagonistic and unfriendly as well as possibly deceptive in nature. If you are really being truthful in what you have posted Mr. Peterberg then why is there so much interest in our patent to begin with? This is totally contrary to what you have posted here. Please demonstrate your honesty and integrity as well as good faith and remove our patent information from your forum as well as the drawing showing the design. It is protected and you yourself as the Global Moderator have proclaimed there is no interest here, "When your products are guarded against infringement we are not really interested in those". Understanding how it works and "Maybe, we could build it to learn more, estimate pros and cons. There are also other and maybe better downdraft stoves..." demonstrates far more intent in just understanding how it works out of curiosity. Clear intent has been demonstrated already to copy and build our idea and compare it to other designs. Am I correct in this assumption or am I wrong? Why would one want to go through that much effort without the intent of sharing it? It is protected and I have made it perfectly clear that we will collaborate with a NDA, outside of that, we will defend our right to protect this Intellectual Property. Please demonstrate the true intentions of this forum for all. Perhaps that would clear matters up and I will be able to in clear conscience believe what you say is actually true.
Thank you and Happy Independence Day "Give me Liberty, or give me death!
Your antagonism is misplaced and counterproductive.
Reading a patent is not an infringement. Posting a patent is not an infringement. Trying to understand a patent is not an infringement. Building a mock-up for study, based on a patent, is not an infringement. Pointing out the flaws in a patent is not an infringement. Improving on a patent is not an infringement.
Benefiting monetarily from a patent without permission of the patent holder is an infringement.
You are unlikely to see infringement by the visible participants of this forum. They are more likely to find their ideas appearing in someone else's product or patent applications.
Being a troll does not help your marketing position. If your intent is to threaten or sue anyone who posts Mr. Stewart's patent then you need to start with the US Patent and Trademark Office, then move on to Google and the myriad other online information services.
If you truly have confidence in your product, then go out and sell it. Few people have the skills and resources to fabricate a design like Mr. Stewart's for less than it would cost to buy one from you, so stop fretting over a handful of obstinate (and exceptionally gifted) tinkers. If your product is as good as you claim, your biggest concern should be with those who have a history of flooding the market with cheap knock-offs. In fact, your best strategy now is to sell, sell, sell, before the big boys chew you up and spit you out.
I do wish you every success.
Last Edit: May 7, 2017 0:34:28 GMT -8 by peterberg
First of all, apologies to everyone for my foul language in previous post.
On the matter of motives, i guess it all comes down to whether or not one believes that our destinies are intertwined. As a person who does, i cannot imagine my or anyone's child truly feeling safe so long as someone else's child is going hungry. Thus, i invest my energy/faith in collaborative open source research. And I get my hackles up when forces work to inhibit healthy innovations from manifesting.
I have recently built 2 natural (light clay) houses with Annualized Geo Solar heating systems that gather summer heat (via stack effect under a thin sub-metal roof plenum leading to peak plenum), pump it down underground with a PV powered and actuated 10cm axial fan, store it in 'carefully' insulated earthen mass under the house such that it passively radiates into the dwelling throughout the solar-thermally starved winter months. Cost to install is less than the standard fare. Running costs nil. Maintenance cost negligible. You would not believe the 'interference' i have received from very powerful bodies that would rather this open-source technology not become commonplace. This much to say, dog-eat-dog profit motive has its very dark side.
In searching for common ground here, i wonder if we participants of this thread all agree that the less energy the average consumer wastes in making heat the better. ?
Woodychain, i respect your intention to protect your invention and carry it to a large scale market.
And i hope you can respect my/our impulse to discover evermore amazing techniques of wood firing. e.g. 'plasma or bust'
I agree with open source for this kind of thing, but I also agree with patent rights for those who go through the effort and truly have a new idea. In addition, I don't have a problem with compensating someone when they help me out, as long as they are open to that idea.
Woodychain, I don't think anyone here is looking to cash in on this idea. The whole aim seemed to be to understand how it works and better understand using wood as a fuel source. I have only been a member of this blog for a couple of months, but everything I have seen suggests that the members are truly interested in promoting more understanding. So far, nobody here has hinted at wanting to knock-off the idea and sell it to the Chinese (or whoever). It seemed to me that they wanted to see how close it comes to things they are already trying and whether your product, or the basic concept therein, would have any applicability. From what I can tell, they are mainly tinkerers who experiment with things for their own benefit or for the overall benefit of society. Most of what I have seen hints that any one of them would buy your product from you if they found that it would help them reach their personal goals of more efficient heating and they could make it fit in their homemade heating appliances. Since many of their heaters are already achieving very high efficiencies, there is little doubt that they would find that it could not enhance what they are already doing.
I would like to join Patamos and others in wishing you luck in your new business. I can see that you will have a huge market niche with all of the woodstoves that have been installed since the mid-70's in this country. Try not to get too upset that there are folks around who will want to understand and experiment on your product who will probably never want to market anything. These are, literally, brick and mortar folks who are happier building their own efficient woodburning appliances. They enjoy the satisfaction of building something that is unique as well as very efficient. They are not your market and never will be judging by what I read on the US Patent Site (Yes, I read it too! It is, after all, public information.).
If you would like to put your mind at ease, take some time (not too much as it will detract from your business) to read the experiment section of this blog. You will see some amazing things there. It will also demonstrate to you what they are trying to accomplish. This little two-page thread is more of a side-track.
Mkrepel and Patamos, Thanks for the support and the best wishes, much appreciated. It is refreshing to receive an explanation that makes sense and yes I have not spent much time on this site, just popped in to poke around and stepped on a hornets nest right off the bat. Yikes! Your explanations helps set me at ease and I also wish you guys all the best as well. Strange though initially I thought maybe I'd find some like-minded Pyromaniacs around here that I could collaborate with to help save the world Now I'm off to DC to collaborate with our Senators and Congressmen on some other more pressing matters..... After that it will be back home to kick ash and fight fire till we either get some rain or everything goes up in flames out here in the West. Gonna be an interesting summer on this side of the Great Divide. Wish I had more time to hang around here with you folks to find out what your really up to. In a strange way I have found that animosity can sometimes produce some interesting friendships, never could figure that one out......... No one ever accused me of being normal, if I was I sure and hell would not be running towards the smoke and flames while everyone else is headed the opposite direction. So when things get hot, normally you'll find me right there in the middle of it. I'll still have my eye on ya here and check in from time to time, but my other eye is on more important matters than beating this dead horse any longer. Nothing I like better than........not necessarily in this order;) 1. Building stuff to put out fire. 2. Building stuff that makes fire. 3 A burning hot woman (my wife) with that look in her eyes!
Have a great summer ya all, hope you guys find the Holy Grail of Pyromania and I totally respect "my/our impulse to discover evermore amazing techniques of wood firing. e.g. 'plasma or bust'"
Greetings Folks, Any questions about this design or the Intensifire can now be directed to me as I have formed a partnership with Jason Stewart of NZ to represent this technology in North America. We are working on a few designs currently and will have units in production soon, for North America. The technology is as described above in the patent.
So what is the status of this as we head into heating season?
I stumbled upon this searching for ways to make an old stove more efficient. My son rents an old farmhouse with a large steel box of a woodstove. Literally. No firebrick, no baffles. Rear flue connection. It regularly gets down to -40° around here and last winter that darn thing swallowed wood almost as fast as he could shovel it in. I figure there's a lot of room for improvement, but the landlord refuses to replace the stove since it "works just fine".
Looking at those patent drawings, it appears that holes are drilled in the bottom of the firebox to draw air in? It must be custom made or adjusted to fit each individual stove? Will it even work with a rear flue design?
TexasGonzo: Sooooo glad I found this site! Its always rewarding to find such a super group of folks! To any and all, feel free to PM me anytime. Thanks for having me!
Mar 11, 2019 18:56:41 GMT -8
jlmtech: GADGET: CONSIDER USING A JET PUMP INSTEAD OF A BLOWER FAN TO INDUCE DRAFT; NO CLOGGING.
Mar 26, 2019 8:19:28 GMT -8
michaelegan: i am unable to open the sketchup files on my mac. I used sketchup a few years back but apparently the company now requires a subscription. does anyone have any advice/instructions on how to use the program or how to view pictures without spending money?
Aug 20, 2019 18:41:48 GMT -8
mannytheseacow: michaelegan: download AutoCAD student version for free... import .SKP
Aug 23, 2019 13:33:44 GMT -8
topbaza: hi everyone, been searching all over net and this is were i need to be i think!!
Sept 28, 2019 6:16:25 GMT -8
anounaki: Hi, why I cant upload photos when I make new tread to this forum?
Feb 28, 2020 2:09:40 GMT -8
ahansen: photos under 1 mb not possible?
Jun 4, 2020 0:09:21 GMT -8
belgiangulch: Photo's are possible. They must be downloaded elsewhere and the image url (adress) is copyied.
Sept 14, 2020 7:26:15 GMT -8
belgiangulch: While creating a thread click on the small picture in the banner above the reply. A box pops up, paste the image url in the box. Pay no attention to the huge list of numbers and such.When you finish and hit reply your post with pictures will come up.
Sept 14, 2020 7:29:27 GMT -8
deadstarsstillburn: Hi there. I was directed this way by folks on the Permies.com website and am hoping I can get some information on how a total newbie can get started designing, siting, building, and not-dying-in-a-horrible-house-fire with a new RMH in a 160-year old home
Oct 21, 2020 6:52:10 GMT -8
deadstarsstillburn: The people over there recommended either a 6" batchbox or an 8" J-tube. I don't know what those are but am going to try to figure that out. What I need is a blueprint that I can scale to fit the need for my house. I have something likne 5000 square feet
Oct 21, 2020 6:53:00 GMT -8
deadstarsstillburn: but I do not need to heat all of it by any means. probably only need to heat half of that, maybe less.
Oct 21, 2020 6:53:15 GMT -8
deadstarsstillburn: moreover, the house has 3 storeys (large attic) so I assume if I get very efficient heating on the ground floor, that will go a long way toward heating the upstairs as well, no?
Oct 21, 2020 6:53:59 GMT -8
BenAlexanderT: Happy new year everybody. I wish you the best
Dec 31, 2020 15:06:14 GMT -8
Solomon: Anybody in Southern Oregon, in Jackson or Josephine counties?
Jan 16, 2021 21:54:43 GMT -8
gnomedome: i realsie this is from 2009
Apr 14, 2021 8:30:44 GMT -8
gnomedome: i realize this is from 2009 id love to see the photos from this ..as im looking to build a sauna soon similar to this .... if anyody sees this post email@example.com..... the photos in this post did not show up
Apr 14, 2021 8:32:00 GMT -8