Compare ? Adapt,Bridge the gap ? Connect the dots?

[davidb]

Hi

First I should say thanks for the forum, I hope I have posted this in the right place, it great t have a place to post this, any assistance appreciated.

In Ireland it is a little frustrating, a few years ago I had read and researched stoves in Russia, Alaska and Canada and come across the rocket stove.  I am now looking for an solution that will not invalidate my home insurance. 
the rocket stove would be great for a workshop of concrete walls and floors and I would be ok building most of one, but for inside the house I am trying to combine a solution which is close to the efficiency of the rocket stove
but also something that will not invalidate the home insurance.  Most experts on Ireland only deal with brand name stoves.

In Ireland the efficiency of a stove is most commonly reported as being more efficient than a open fireplace ( 2-3 times) (66-77%) ( Too many stove companies do not quote any statistic) . Most rocket stoves are another 10-15%
more efficient (80-90%) than most stoves for sale. 

The majority of free standing stoves wood & multi fuel stoves in Ireland come with a glass door at the front and a chimney choice of coming out the front or out the back,
I am looking for the simplest solution, maybe installing a stove 10-15ft away from 
a chimney and then using the horizontal run though a thermal bank/seat over to the chimney.  A common brand of stove would be Stanley.

It just seems insane that it is still possible to DIY a product that is more efficient that those for sale
in the shops. While the DIY projects may not as "nice looking", having a warm room can make almost any item look attractive.

The standard chimney in a house in Ireland seems to be designed to let the smoke out as quickly as possible, and does not use the zig zag of getting most of the heat out 
of the existing warm air ?  Draft maybe a bigger factor than I am giving it credit for as the outside temperature does not reach the lows of places like Canada.
Still if higher burn temperatures were reached in combustion then the emitted smoke  should be much cleaner.

Burning secondary gases would be a default requirement which would also lessen the amount of soot build up inside the chimney ?  but also the initial horizontal run should be where the soot builds up ? if it
were going to happen.

The closest I can come to a commercial rocket stove anywhere seems to be the www.zaugstoves.com.

Any assistance in adapting the rocket stove ideas into some existing products would be greatly appreciated. I have already written to some of the "brand name" stove manufacturers
asking about the intent to build more efficient stoves. 


Sincerely Colm 

[pinhead]

Matthewwalker sells the Walker Stove which is a Peterberg Batch Box configuration. I assume it would be cost-prohibitive to ship to Ireland, though.

[Vortex]

Welcome to the forum, Colm.
I'm also in Ireland and well familiar with the shite they sell as stoves these days. Being a stove man I often get asked to fit stoves for people or give advice on what to buy. I recently met a guy who builds fireplaces for a living, so I asked him if he ever builds masonry stoves - he looked at me blankly and I had to try and explain what a masonry stove was...
Have a look at my stove in link below.

[Daryl]

There are guys in the uk building diy rocket stoves and now casting risers. You only need to look a bit. If anything, they could help you with supplies. I've often read and heard that certain materials available here are difficult to find overseas.

[davidb]

Thanks for your replies so far.

Building a rocket stove is less of an issue, but providing certificate of safety and public liability that home insurance companies require may be the issue.


Maybe i should not be so hard on Ireland, as we do not come from a tradition and climate where by people freeze if the stove stops working or one runs out of firewood.

However we have been living with the internet for a while which allows us to learning from others and their climates and solutions.


I am wondering how unrealistic would it be to apply the following to a regular stove


1/ To use a dual air intake, so that the chimney pipe has a dual function of supplying air for combustion ( this is already being done)
and also as an exhaust for fumes.

2/ Have an option to place panels of insulation inside the glass doors so allowing the fire to reach higher temperatures.

3/ Before letting the fumes up the chimney we detour it 10-15ft along a horizontal pipe surrounded by a thermal bank.


If the above were a safe option it would allow most standard stoves to run in one of two states

The more efficient rate and
when visitors called to the house , remove the insulation panels showing the fire
and use a flue/baffer to avoid the detour and allow fumes directly up the chimney if needed.

One advantage of the above maybe that a lot of existing stoves could be upgraded and would not need to be replaced.

Mmm. Need to sign off

Thanks

Colm

[gjh42]

The big problem is that the existing stoves are likely not capable of complete combustion, so using the exhaust in a thermal mass is going to cause significant amounts of creosote deposits and either chimney fires in the mass or choking of the passages. If you have a stove (with catalytic combustor?) that can give truly clean exhaust, then you can use it in a mass as long as you still get enough draft.

[gjh42]

All-metal stoves cannot reach complete combustion temperatures without destroying the metal in some spots. You would need to put a refractory combustion chamber inside the metal firebox, which would make the available stoking space much smaller.

[Donkey]

It is quite likely that modifying a recognized stove type will ALSO invalidate your insurance.
You might attempt calling a Batch-Box with bell-type thermal mass a "Masonry Heater". Everywhere in The States (that I'm aware of) Masonry heater rules are very flexible. They MUST be built by a licensed mason but otherwise, flexibility is needed because of all of the options available in the masonry heater world.
It may be the same in the UK.

[talltuk]

In the uk we have to adhear to building regs part J and there are certain british standards covering masonry heaters. I haven't yet had time to sit down and properly investigate these documents though I know the BS is based on European Standards. Of course I don't know what regs Ireland has in place but might be similar. Insurance wise I know a chimney has to be signed off by HEATAS registered engineer, though not by law.