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Post by DCish on Jun 20, 2014 2:50:10 GMT -8
Ianto Evans and Leslie Jackson nail down the core concepts, vocabulary, etc, plus some variations on the theme. Most of what you'll read on this site is focused on fine tuning the core (the place where combustion takes place) and exploring means of heat storage to meet an ever greater range of practical scenarios. I found it very helpful (if time consuming!) to work my way through this site more or less chronologically, it gave me a good sense of the development of this technology. As I understand it, some of the developments on this site eventually made their way back into the current edition of the book.
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Post by Natasha on Jun 20, 2014 6:52:11 GMT -8
Hi Donkey, thanks for joining the convo, and thank you so much for the advice. I'm re-reading through Ianto's book right now to refresh myself on the basics, because I still haven't found anyone local who has any experience or who can teach me about these things. :-( It sounds like it's just me and you guys! I don't want to burn the house down! Well, on second thought . . . :-)
DCish, when I got your link I realized that is the book I had originally bought last year, so I started reading through it again. We spent this past winter with two space heaters, only warming two bedrooms in this old house and with snow out on the old kitchen floor that didn't melt! I don't want to be in that position again this winter, so I'm trying to get a jumpstart on the learning process.
So, can anyone help me bridge the gap in my understanding between Ianto Evans' book and the fancier sounding stuff here? Should I build a basic Evans model as my outdoor cookstove/oven (It is getting way too hot to cook inside right now! I couldn't even eat my supper last night I was so hot.) for now, so I can get the basics down? Then, shoot for a fancier version taking in the whole venturi, cast batch box, etc., using the central chimney ideas for inside?
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Post by Natasha on Jun 20, 2014 6:53:51 GMT -8
Thanks, DCish I just saw your latest reply, and that does help. It's all becoming clearer :-)
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Post by matthewwalker on Jun 20, 2014 7:08:25 GMT -8
Hi Natasha, so glad to see you posting here. You've gotten some great advice so far. I am a fan of building a simple J before moving on to some of the variations discussed here on this board. Frankly, I still find a straight "by the book" J tube to be the simplest way to achieve excellent results, and I personally don't consider anything more to be necessary or even superior for most users in most installations. Not criticizing, I love the experimenting and progression as much as anyone, but sometimes I feel like we can sidetrack folks who just need a damn good heater, not a physics lesson. So, my advice is exactly what you propose above. Build a "by the book" J with whatever is easy for you to source and work with, whether it is cast from clay or built with stacked bricks. Use it outdoors to cook and play with, and you will have a very good handle on things as you head into fall and begin your heater. One thing about building heaters indoors... I have found in my climate that there is a big advantage to building as the season is cooling off so you can burn as you build, both to dry it out and to verify function. Not only that, but it can be a chore to wet down cob in the dry summer, I much prefer to build when there is wet mud available. So, in my opinion, you have a few months to sort out your thoughts and make a plan before you start on your actual heater.
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Post by Natasha on Jun 20, 2014 14:58:25 GMT -8
Here are the photos I mentioned days ago. A slight correction, the fireplace is in the center of the house from front to back, but it is in the NW 1/3 from side to side. The back two bedrooms will be the farthest away. I am hoping this will be mitigated by opening up the space that will become the entry/library/music room, making a clear pass through to the bedrooms and possibly wrapping a bench around the backside (but I don't know if that will look to cluttered near the front door).
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Post by satamax on Jun 20, 2014 21:40:02 GMT -8
Just purfect, imho, for a batch rocket! Well, the thirst thing to do, would be to open the firebox. To see what's inside. There must be a damper, i would think, if not, that's even better. Or not, because the damper if high enough, could create a double bell with some work. One thing, you will certainly get dirty at some point. And then take measurements. Then decide what you want. Outside J tube with barrel rocket, feeding your huge brick bell? Or a J or batch fitted inside the firebox/chimney. If this was my home, it would be done in no time! Batch in the chimney. If the damper is in the way, you will have to borrow a plasma cutter from a friend. So that could change things a bit. With your two stubs on the front, you could do something like putting a big slab of stone (cut please, don't do it hippie style )and build few bricks or stones on the side, to house the future rocket firebox and it's insulation. Then put a rectangular metal tank on top, to have direct radiant heat. Then you leave this open at the back; it should be airtight against the chimney; to feed the second bell made by the chimney. Like this, the transition from barrel to bell isn't too complicated. Or do it flush with the actual firebox's front. with a metal plate; still for quick radiant heat; a door in that metal plate and the cutout for the rocket firebox or burn tunel, depending which architecture you want. This is what i would do myself, as drawn in my skp file above.
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Post by Natasha on Jun 21, 2014 7:24:57 GMT -8
Thanks for the reassurance Matt. I'll have to see what materials we have kicking around. I'm excited to try out some experiments. :-)
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Post by Natasha on Jun 21, 2014 7:52:58 GMT -8
. . . Well, the thirst thing to do, would be to open the firebox. To see what's inside. There must be a damper . . If this was my home, it would be done in no time! Batch in the chimney. If the damper is in the way, you will have to borrow a plasma cutter from a friend. So that could change things a bit. With your two stubs on the front, you could do something like putting a big slab of stone (cut please, don't do it hippie style )and build few bricks or stones on the side, to house the future rocket firebox and it's insulation. Then put a rectangular metal tank on top, to have direct radiant heat. Then you leave this open at the back; it should be airtight against the chimney; to feed the second bell made by the chimney. Like this, the transition from barrel to bell isn't too complicated. Or do it flush with the actual firebox's front. with a metal plate; still for quick radiant heat; a door in that metal plate and the cutout for the rocket firebox or burn tunel, depending which architecture you want. This is what i would do myself, as drawn in my skp file above. Hi Satamax, Do I really have to open the firebox?! You mean cutting out bricks right?! Won't it be extremely difficult to get bricks to match, or do you just put the old ones back in when you're done? How do you get them out without at the same time destroying them? I know already that will not go over well with my husband. Is there any way to get around it? My son has a spy cam on a long bendable arm :-) Time and time again we have wished we came into adulthood with more practical skills, but we just have to start somewhere and give our kids a head-start, right? I like your idea about the slab of stone. I am having a little trouble visualizing the rest. I'll have to go back and look at the skp file. I was having trouble getting sketchup onto my computer, but I think I've got it now. I'll go check it out.
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Post by satamax on Jun 21, 2014 8:37:23 GMT -8
Well Natasha. Bricks are easy to remove, a lump hammer and knock on theses. You could reuse theses if the bonding agent is not too stiff. (concrete, lime or whatnot!)
But you could check with a cam before! If you want the heat riser to be in the firebox, you will have to open it up!
If you want to use the chimney just as a bell, and have no damper plate, then you don't have to.
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Post by satamax on Jun 21, 2014 9:14:33 GMT -8
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Post by ericvw on Jun 25, 2014 18:04:03 GMT -8
Hey Natasha, So, any experiments, or you busy with hay?!!! Funny thing- Looking at your self labeled picture, our house enjoys the same front door as yours! must have been a sale at Lowe's... Sure hope you haven't gotten discouraged but rather just busy with stuff! I've been trying to figure a way to cast round (inner) heat riser sections. Of course, with your fireplace situation, you won't even have to concern yourself with such. I suspect even if you decide on horizontal feed(batch box), you might use locally available firebrick($1.11/brick at our Lowes), but what ever you decide to do, make sure to keep the boards and your thread up to date. I'm one cast core r & d closer to realizing superior use of my firewood! Of course, I would like to design a multiple splitting maul head for my hydraulic wood splitter for speeding up the process... All in due time. We await your news, Eric VW
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Post by matthewwalker on Jun 29, 2014 8:34:23 GMT -8
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Post by ericvw on Jun 29, 2014 12:00:57 GMT -8
Great video, Matt! Nice simple build, I might try that before I bring my Batch Box in the house for the 1st time this winter. I'm sure you will be able to get a better idea of the simplicity here, Natasha. Thanks to matthewwalker for your efforts and guidance to newbies like Natasha and Eric VW(me)! EVW
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Post by ericvw on Jul 2, 2014 18:05:15 GMT -8
Hey Kentucky, u still there? I've cast some riser sleeves, cracked one during heat up, but still moving forward. Hope you're putting matthewwalker's idea or some such to use. Respond, lady, or we'll have to send in the cavalry! You're probably not too far from me us in southwest VA! Don't let the sun go down on your frustrations! EVW
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