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Post by 2tranceform on Feb 12, 2014 6:53:13 GMT -8
Thanks Morticcio. since the rockwool has a much lower working temperature than the Kaowool and I am not optimizing with P-Channel, trip wire and kick tail, (purposely) so as not to exceed the working temperature (hopefully) of the riser sleeves, maybe I will be okay at 2300 F. I am confused. Cramer, I did not see where you mentioned using rockwool in the riser. The ingredients that I see are all made of ceramic fiber which withstands much higher temps than rockwool. The weak link is the binder (rigidizer) in the sleeves. The working temp of 2300F should be sufficient though. Really, there is only one way to be sure....  light it up! |
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Cramer
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 14:54:05 GMT -8
No Trance. Morticcio said HE had a rockwool riser fail and crumble. I am thinking that the vacuum formed 2300 F riser sleeves might be okay. What I was looking into is the mode of failure so I could know what to watch for IN CASE of failure of the sleeve. The burner mold is made and I will get the pour done as soon as I can but the riser sleeves have not arrived as yet.
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Cramer
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 14:56:53 GMT -8
Thanks Pinhead, I did not know that would be the case. I figured optimizing it created a hotter burn. Must have read that wrong.
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morticcio
Full Member
"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on Feb 13, 2014 14:36:22 GMT -8
Apologies for causing any confusion here - my earlier response probably should've ended with "so look for similar symptoms on the Kaowool if temperatures approaching 2300F are reached."
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 17, 2014 15:35:16 GMT -8
Apologies for causing any confusion here - my earlier response probably should've ended with "so look for similar symptoms on the Kaowool if temperatures approaching 2300F are reached." Thanks Morticcio! I hope not to have to worry much over it. I am thinking of using some ITC-100 on the inside of the sleeves to possibly thwart any deterioration of the sleeves. |
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 19:19:37 GMT -8
I will be having the burner section poured tomorrow. I will try to remember to take a picture of the crude mold before having it poured. It looks funny but I firmly believe it will work just fine after installing the riser into the core. I got the riser sleeves today. Can anyone who uses these let me know how to "glue" them to one another? They are 1/2 inch wall, 1 foot long, 6 inch inside diameter sleeves. Flat on both top and bottom. I recall Joris Paul's sleeves on the build Robert observed (the one with the water coils on the exterior behind the "skin") had an angle on them. Concave at one end and convex on the other but nothing on that thread said what material was used to stick them together? Anybody know? Matt? Peter? I know you guys have this kind of riser setup. What did you use? (If you see this post that is) The sleeves, once attached end to end will be wrapped in Cerablanket, then in 1/4 inch Kaowool paper. I will use rigidizer on the blanket and paper to stiffen it up so that I will not depend on the riser sleeves to bear the sheering effect of an angled riser. Slowly coming together, wish me luck! It will be a pretty expensive FAIL if it does not work out but the experience will be of value to all. I expect it to work well though according to my test and all of the help and guidance from here. |
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Post by matthewwalker on Feb 19, 2014 19:35:47 GMT -8
I'm usually standing them vertical Cramer, so I just set them on top of each other. Sometimes I'll use a utility knife to make a little shiplap joint, but I don't do much beyond that. I thought I read that someone wrapped them in ceramic paper and used furnace cement to stick it all together.
I think if I were trying to do what you are, with those materials, I'd probably find a piece of ducting(10"?), or make one, that could serve as a canister for your composite riser elements. That way you wouldn't be relying on any of those materials to stay rigid inside the heater. Just a thought.
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 19, 2014 19:56:53 GMT -8
I'm usually standing them vertical Cramer, so I just set them on top of each other. Sometimes I'll use a utility knife to make a little shiplap joint, but I don't do much beyond that. I thought I read that someone wrapped them in ceramic paper and used furnace cement to stick it all together. I think if I were trying to do what you are, with those materials, I'd probably find a piece of ducting(10"?), or make one, that could serve as a canister for your composite riser elements. That way you wouldn't be relying on any of those materials to stay rigid inside the heater. Just a thought. I was thinking along the same lines. I was trying to figure out if a length of 10" HVAC duct (not flue pipe but 26GA duct, galvanized) would hold up to the temperature of the base of the burner. It would be isolated from the actual combustion so I was thinking all should be fine. I think I shall try it that way. If the material at the base of the duct does deteriorate then I could devise a support (maybe a stack of fire brick) to cradle the remaining duct work to provide support inside the bell. |
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Post by satamax on Feb 20, 2014 2:16:08 GMT -8
Cramer, your galv pipe should hold just fine. Outside the burner, you might have 600 or 700C° absolute maximum, transfered by the materials, on a very localized point. But it will be cooled by the hot gases. I think, there's no wories to have, at all.
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 20, 2014 5:17:29 GMT -8
Cramer, your galv pipe should hold just fine. Outside the burner, you might have 600 or 700C° absolute maximum, transfered by the materials, on a very localized point. But it will be cooled by the hot gases. I think, there's no wories to have, at all. Thanks Max. There are two (three with mine) votes for the configuration now so I think I will go with it! |
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Post by Robert on Feb 20, 2014 6:47:44 GMT -8
I got the riser sleeves today. Can anyone who uses these let me know how to "glue" them to one another? They are 1/2 inch wall, 1 foot long, 6 inch inside diameter sleeves. Flat on both top and bottom. I recall Joris Paul's sleeves on the build Robert observed (the one with the water coils on the exterior behind the "skin") had an angle on them. Concave at one end and convex on the other but nothing on that thread said what material was used to stick them together? Anybody know? Matt? Peter? I know you guys have this kind of riser setup. What did you use? (If you see this post that is) Hey Cramer. I remeber that the tubes where glued by using to kinds of glue... firts was the ceramic fibre kind of glue (which becames same material when will get dry as teh tube it self)... the other one Joris was using was a vermiculite glue. he made a profile with Jigsaw so connecting them was easier... at the end the piece was wrapped with ceramic paper glued with vermiculite glue. pleas make a lot of pictures of your build and share them  greetings robert |
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 20, 2014 10:32:32 GMT -8
I got the riser sleeves today. Can anyone who uses these let me know how to "glue" them to one another? They are 1/2 inch wall, 1 foot long, 6 inch inside diameter sleeves. Flat on both top and bottom. I recall Joris Paul's sleeves on the build Robert observed (the one with the water coils on the exterior behind the "skin") had an angle on them. Concave at one end and convex on the other but nothing on that thread said what material was used to stick them together? Anybody know? Matt? Peter? I know you guys have this kind of riser setup. What did you use? (If you see this post that is) Hey Cramer. I remeber that the tubes where glued by using to kinds of glue... firts was the ceramic fibre kind of glue (which becames same material when will get dry as teh tube it self)... the other one Joris was using was a vermiculite glue. he made a profile with Jigsaw so connecting them was easier... at the end the piece was wrapped with ceramic paper glued with vermiculite glue. pleas make a lot of pictures of your build and share them greetings robert Thanks Robert! I will ask about the material when I go today to get the mold poured. |
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Cramer
Junior Member
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Post by Cramer on Feb 20, 2014 10:50:46 GMT -8
Mold It is not the prettiest thing you have ever seen but it will give you the idea. Hit the "next" button at the top of the page to see three different angles.
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Post by Robert on Feb 20, 2014 14:09:10 GMT -8
Keep us informed... looking interesting... and remember ... pictures, pictures, pictures they are worth more than 1000 words |
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 20, 2014 15:26:33 GMT -8
Keep us informed... looking interesting... and remember ... pictures, pictures, pictures they are worth more than 1000 words I will try to remember to take pictures as I go. Well, the video of the prototype and three views of the mold so far are really all I have at the moment. I am getting a bit tingly in anticipation... |
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light it up!
