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Post by satamax on Jan 20, 2014 22:33:39 GMT -8
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129 
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Post by Cramer on Jan 21, 2014 3:59:14 GMT -8
Thanks for the link Max! That was a very interesting thread!
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Jan 21, 2014 16:25:33 GMT -8
Well, since nobody said my idea about forming my riser as I previously posted would be a bad thing or would not work, I will order the materials on Friday. A bit more expensive than I expected for the Cerablanket but I will have material left over for future use after the riser is completed so I don't think that is a bad thing. I did a bunch of calling around and just could not find anywhere local that had the Cerablanket and rigidizer. I could have had lower temperature wool but I would rather over than under engineer anytime I possibly can. I just don't like to settle for less than what I want. It is just not like me.
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Post by patamos on Jan 21, 2014 22:11:06 GMT -8
Just poured/cast a 6" round heat riser today. I've done about a dozen of these in the past few years using bagged 'molditX'. Usually no trouble. But today i was using a new blend of high temp refractory from a company called Clayburn. YIKES! It started stiffening up within 5 minutes. Big panic session placing tamping and thumping... Fortunately i had everything i needed on hand, including a helping hand when i yelled for help.
Word out here is: be wary if the literature says it is 'gunnable'. Which basically equates with 'fast setting'
well being
pat
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Jan 22, 2014 3:26:26 GMT -8
Thanks Pat! I bet it was panic city! I don't think I can use a cast refractory riser though. I fear that if placed on angle in the burner base it might be too heavy in and of itself and either crack itself off or damage the burner base itself. I just found a message from the guy I was talking to locally on my machine last night so a vacuum formed riser of the correct length is not out of the question yet. I thought he would email me and since he didn't I thought he was just going to ignore me so I had given up on it. He actually picked up the phone and called though! I really need some time off work to go see him and discuss this with him.
I shall keep y'all posted!
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Jan 25, 2014 13:02:05 GMT -8
I put a request in for some time off to gather information and materials from a local refractory dealer. This is the guy I mentioned before who might be able to have a monolithic ceramic riser tube made for me. I will let all of you know what transpires after the meeting. He did contact me to let me know I could buy in small portions (less than a whole roll of ceramic blanket material et. al.) and said he would like to discuss the project with me. Fingers are crossed so if there are any typographic errors here, that is the reason, hard to type with fingers crossed.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 1, 2014 21:02:31 GMT -8
Two Halves.skp (345.36 KB) Had a very productive conversation with the guy at the local refractory supplies dealer. Out of that conversation came this idea I would like to run by everyone and solicit opinions if you will. The attached .skp file incorporates P-Channel, trip wire, inherent in design back sweep and a kick tail all around the riser half of the two part burner. The half with the P-Channel and trip wire to be cast from dense refractory cement (probably in two halves then squished together, which is the only way I can envision doing it, unless anyone has an other idea). The half with the kick tail, since it will not suffer mechanical abuse of fuel knocking it around to be cast from insulating refractory. Proposed joining method (which would allow any angle to be put on the riser section) High Temp RTV sealant, 1/4" refractory paper and a 401 stainless strap/clamp. This would all be boxed up in a container of course surrounded by insulative materials but the two halves would be shippable (another plus to the method) and rather portable too. Comments?
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 4, 2014 18:12:55 GMT -8
Picking up materials on Friday to start the build. Hope to be finished (time permitting) in a couple of weeks. Since I got no comments on the two part burner idea, I am falling back to the "box style" design. Easier to build a mold but I do think the two part burner would not be a bad idea.
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Post by 2tranceform on Feb 5, 2014 6:29:12 GMT -8
The two part mold should work fine. I believe just the ceramic paper can be used to seal the burner. Refractory mortar might work as well. Someone with actual experience could weigh in on this. I am just an arm chair rocketeer. I have seen stainless wire and stainless banding used to hold it all together.
I am working on my mold as the weather permits. If I had a stove, the garage would be a lot more hospitible (-13F air temp this morning). I am using the box style, loosely based on Matt's video, with the P-channel and sweep. I will probably leave the kick-tail out of this one.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 5, 2014 15:31:30 GMT -8
Thanks for the feedback Trance! Hope things warm up for you soon!
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 9, 2014 16:28:53 GMT -8
Built the mold today. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture of it to post. It ain't pretty but I think it will be functional enough.
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 10, 2014 16:09:46 GMT -8
Well, I am going to give them a try. What? You ask. I found some Kaowool 1/2 in wall riser sleeves rated at 2300 F. I am thinking of wrapping them in Cerablanket 1 1/2 inches and then 1/2 inch Kaowool paper (both with rigidizer) to make my riser. I hope the temperatures will not exceed the riser sleeves rating but I fear they might. What may happen if that happens with Cerablanket wrapped around it (which I think is rated at 2600 F. When (if) the riser sleeve fails what is the result of failure? Crumbling? Slumping? Melting? Does anybody know?
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morticcio
Full Member
"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
Posts: 371
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Post by morticcio on Feb 12, 2014 0:46:24 GMT -8
Would be great to see some photos of the build. How tall are the riser sleeves? When (if) the riser sleeve fails what is the result of failure? Crumbling? Slumping? Melting? Does anybody know? Not sure about Kaowool but some rockwool I used and abused went brittle and crumbled |
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Cramer
Junior Member
Posts: 129
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Post by Cramer on Feb 12, 2014 3:24:04 GMT -8
Thanks Morticcio. since the rockwool has a much lower working temperature than the Kaowool and I am not optimizing with P-Channel, trip wire and kick tail, (purposely) so as not to exceed the working temperature (hopefully) of the riser sleeves, maybe I will be okay at 2300 F.
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Post by pinhead on Feb 12, 2014 5:47:13 GMT -8
Thanks Morticcio. since the rockwool has a much lower working temperature than the Kaowool and I am not optimizing with P-Channel, trip wire and kick tail, (purposely) so as not to exceed the working temperature (hopefully) of the riser sleeves, maybe I will be okay at 2300 F. Your rocket will still get to the same temps as an optimized RMH it'll just take longer to get there and smoke more in the process... |
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